Date Rape at Burning Man

[bm_cricket]

Ok, just my 2 cents or 0000.00200% here.......


This is gettin kinda good.

I think I'll pull out the popcorn now.

Please continue.

After all, I really cant see anything more of this, but please enlighten me.

Whhhaaa? I don't understand why it's so hard to hear me saying that if she's drunk, don't stick anything inside her except water? Sure, she could be sober and be just as much trouble in the black-out-and-not-remember-saying-yes department but it's a whole lot less likely!

[dr.placebo]

So here's my unsolicited advice:

1. Mutual consent is required for ethical and legal sex. Consent requires legal age, positive communication and reasonable (not absolute) sobriety by all participants. Silence is not consent, and No Means No. Frankly, I'd hold out for mutual enthusiasm, because mere consent seems too weak, but at least obtain consent.

2. Saying yes to one activity is not consent for a repeat of that activity, nor is it consent for any related activity. You can change your mind before any act. Afterwards you need to live with it.

3. Be clear about your desires and your boundaries. Be clear about what you want to do and what you don't want to do.

4. Look out for each other. If you see or hear something suspicious going on then check it out.


Life is too short for bad sex.

[bm_cricket]

So here's my unsolicited advice:

1. Mutual consent is required for ethical and legal sex. Consent requires legal age, positive communication and reasonable (not absolute) sobriety by all participants. Silence is not consent, and No Means No. Frankly, I'd hold out for mutual enthusiasm, because mere consent seems too weak, but at least obtain consent.

2. Saying yes to one activity is not consent for a repeat of that activity, nor is it consent for any related activity. You can change your mind before any act. Afterwards you need to live with it.

3. Be clear about your desires and your boundaries. Be clear about what you want to do and what you don't want to do.

4. Look out for each other. If you see or hear something suspicious going on then check it out.


Life is too short for bad sex.

Thaaaaank you. How is it that any of this is so hard for people to accept??

[Isotopia]

we've come to something of an impasse on how you define "rape"

I think what we've pretty much done is to weigh in on a particular point-of-view based on a one-sided description of an event that none of us will ever be privy to.

I'll not be the first (or the last) to cast a stone as to guilt or innocence of the (alleged) Perp X.

In fact, I've grown bored. This is no more productive than a good wank.

[SFBurnergrrrl]

When I first posted this topic last week I was curious to see what everyone s honest thoughts and reactions would be. It's been enlightening and somewhat disturbing to say the least. I think this is a serious issue which probably occurs quite a bit within the Burning Man community which is why I posted here on eplaya. I was also wondering if anyone else had had similar experiences there and if so there should be a place where it can be talked about without name calling and insulting.

I can't stress enough, that there is no excuse for rape of any kind, no matter what the circumstances. These views should not be tolerated. Rape is never a womens fault nor is she ever partly responsible for it. I
find it shocking that people have these views particularly within a community that should be forward thinking and, I would think, a bit more enlightened. It used to be that a woman was "asking" for it if she wore something too sexy or went to a man's house alone. At Burning Man, women go topless not because they want to be a spectacle for men or because they are asking for sex, but because they can. Because they have a right to do anything wihout getting raped.

[DVD Burner]

When I first posted this topic last week I was curious to see what everyone s honest thoughts and reactions would be. It's been enlightening and somewhat disturbing to say the least. I think this is a serious issue which probably occurs quite a bit within the Burning Man community which is why I posted here on eplaya. I was also wondering if anyone else had had similar experiences there and if so there should be a place where it can be talked about without name calling and insulting.

I can't stress enough, that there is no excuse for rape of any kind, no matter what the circumstances. These views should not be tolerated. Rape is never a womens fault nor is she ever partly responsible for it. I
find it shocking that people have these views particularly within a community that should be forward thinking and, I would think, a bit more enlightened. It used to be that a woman was "asking" for it if she wore something too sexy or went to a man's house alone. At Burning Man, women go topless not because they want to be a spectacle for men or because they are asking for sex, but because they can. Because they have a right to do anything wihout getting raped.

You know something, this yitch has some nerve. In fact, one thing is definitely for sure you are not getting.

You are dealing with incredibly intelligent people on this board, in this thread YOU HAVE CREATED and everyone has been doing their very best possible to give you some incredibly intelligent SOUND advice.....and so far, you seem to have ignored ALL OF IT.

As far as I see, there is nothing more to this thread.

My popcorn is getting dry.

Fact of the matter is, if you can not hang at Burningman, DONT COME.

It's people like you that fuck things up for EVERYBODY.

IT'S A FACT!

Go away.

You are irrisposible and do not want to atone to anything you do on your own.

NO!

Do not come to BM.

GET FUCKED UP AND BLACK OUT AND NOT BE AWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS AND EXPECT OTHERS TO LOOK AFTER YOU?

Survival is key. If you cant do it dont do it.

Plain and simple.

There is nothing more to be said.

PERIOD!


YOU AND YOUR KIND DONT BELONG!


Hey folks, lets be real here. Do we really want to have idiots that cant figure things out only to fuck shit up for everyone?

COME ON NOW!

[DVD Burner]

Sorry, but there is one thing about this girl that just gets to me.

There are A TON OF TOTALLY FINE GIRLS THAT ARE SMARTER THAN HER THAT DONT DO THIS KINDA STUPID SHIT.

Totally smart.


This girl made a totally STUPID MISTAKE and is blaming everyone else except herself.

I dont see it.

Help me here.

Or better yet, why do I even need any help to see the illogical ..............





just help me please.

My popcorn is getting beyond soggy and dry as of now.

Ok, just my 2 cents or 0000.00200% here.......


This is gettin kinda good.

I think I'll pull out the popcorn now.

Please continue.

After all, I really cant see anything more of this, but please enlighten me.

Whhhaaa? I don't understand why it's so hard to hear me saying that if she's drunk, don't stick anything inside her except water? Sure, she could be sober and be just as much trouble in the black-out-and-not-remember-saying-yes department but it's a whole lot less likely!

YES I HEAR YOU!

and who knows, someone just may have tried to stick some water in her.......we dont know. All we know is her side of the story and she is not giving us any of the benefit of the doubt.

Mind you, she does not seem to be the type......so far as we have read ......that had someone that would have done something like this.

Someone that would have looked out for her.

Someone that SHE KNEW FOR 10 YEARS no less.

If she is not responsible enough to have responsible people around her in the first place, why should BM have her around in the first place?

Just sayin..........................


This is not a BM problem.

This is the problem of an irresponsible idiot.

Lets just call it as it is.

Done and over with.

[DVD Burner]

Need not more be said.

[DVD Burner]

So here's my unsolicited advice:

1. Mutual consent is required for ethical and legal sex. Consent requires legal age, positive communication and reasonable (not absolute) sobriety by all participants. Silence is not consent, and No Means No. Frankly, I'd hold out for mutual enthusiasm, because mere consent seems too weak, but at least obtain consent.

2. Saying yes to one activity is not consent for a repeat of that activity, nor is it consent for any related activity. You can change your mind before any act. Afterwards you need to live with it.

3. Be clear about your desires and your boundaries. Be clear about what you want to do and what you don't want to do.

4. Look out for each other. If you see or hear something suspicious going on then check it out.


Life is too short for bad sex.

I understand your sympathy but lets face the facts.

Being Passive is dangerous with someone like this girl.

Everyone really needs to toss her aside.

She is bad news. There is no getting to her as far as common sense goes.

She has posted as such. And as everyone here has seen, all here loves awesome sex.

She would only fuck shit up.

[MisaBlue]

Rape is never a womens fault nor is she ever partly responsible for it.

Are you serious??? Really?!!!

I am following discussion here from the very beginning, I was not replying because I agreed with many responses here and thought it would be only repeating the same over and over. Also, I am not 100% sure about my English and I did not want to screw up...this is too delicate topic to be misunderstood...but you just forced me to write this!

When someone drives 100 miles per hour towards the solid wall and 20 yards before the wall jumps od the brakes because he wants to stop, than it is his fucking fault he hits the wall!!!

It is (as it was already said here...but probably it is worthy to repaeat over and over) about responsibility, choices and common sence!

I do think there should be nobody raped (does not matter if girl, boy, adult or kid - just NO-ONE and NEVER). No-one should experienced even an attempt to be raped.

It is very narrow-minded of you to say what I quote above from your post. I have no intensions calling you names or be rude to you, because it is really unnecessary. But be aware of that this kind of statements you do here appears to speak for all women ... make clear it does not!!! Make sure other women will not be thrown to the same pack with you just because they are women.

MisaBlue

[Shambala]

When I first posted this topic last week I was curious to see what everyone s honest thoughts and reactions would be. It's been enlightening and somewhat disturbing to say the least. I think this is a serious issue which probably occurs quite a bit within the Burning Man community which is why I posted here on eplaya. I was also wondering if anyone else had had similar experiences there and if so there should be a place where it can be talked about without name calling and insulting.

You know SFG, halfway back in these posts, you told a big story and I gave you sympathy and validation, thinking that's what you were looking for. I told you that you were 100% correct. It was meant to help you with your healing process (whatever the fuck that is).
As it turns out now, you were just manipulating everyone for your own sport. I'm sure this is the same manipulation you did to that poor naive bastard the night you slept with him and then wimpered that you were raped. It gave you a cause to hold up for the world to see. You could tell anyone and everyone who would listen, "I AM A RAPE VICTIM! It's great badge to wear, and you seem needy enough that it will be used for the rest of your life. You NEED that attention, don't you?
You are truly the kind of person that true rape victims fear. If you are not treated with respect by your boyfriend/date/spouce, you scream rape.
What a douche bag you REALLY are! Get a fucking life and stop manipulating everyone around you. You are not the victim, we all are.

[Fire_Moose]

So...I'll call troll and say thanks for the good (if not delicate) convo.

[AntiM]

When I first posted this topic last week I was curious to see what everyone s honest thoughts and reactions would be. It's been enlightening and somewhat disturbing to say the least. I think this is a serious issue which probably occurs quite a bit within the Burning Man community which is why I posted here on eplaya. I was also wondering if anyone else had had similar experiences there and if so there should be a place where it can be talked about without name calling and insulting.

I can't stress enough, that there is no excuse for rape of any kind, no matter what the circumstances. These views should not be tolerated. Rape is never a womens fault nor is she ever partly responsible for it. I
find it shocking that people have these views particularly within a community that should be forward thinking and, I would think, a bit more enlightened. It used to be that a woman was "asking" for it if she wore something too sexy or went to a man's house alone. At Burning Man, women go topless not because they want to be a spectacle for men or because they are asking for sex, but because they can. Because they have a right to do anything wihout getting raped.

The right to do anything? This apparently includes the right to be an irresponsible twit. What if you'd gotten that drunk and they let you sleep it off on the playa and you got run over by a mutant vehicle, permanently disabling you? Would you still say you had no responsibility at all for choosing to get so fucked up you couldn't move?

We don't live in an ideal fucking world, not even at Burning Man, just because you want the right to be an idiot and not look after yourself doesn't mean there won't be consequences.

No, rape isn't right, but neither is "I can do anything I want and be safe."

[Dr Helix]

So I've spent the last few days looking at this conversation, and I have a question.

Where's the hexa yurt thread?

[mdmf007]

I am getting pretty bored with this thread as well. SF Girl, if i had to make an assesment, based on your one sided story I would have to say you dont really fit my idea of a rape. Sounds like you both got trashed and had drunken sex. Now you feel regret and find it easier to take upon the role of victim rather than as the drunk you were.

You got what you were looking for, 7 pages of responses. In the beginning there was a little compassion, but that quickly turned to complete skepticism and doubt.

Do people at BM need your warning about getting drunk and haveing regrets in the morning. No - as adults we already got that memo. Thanks for the reminder though.

I would like to get a hold of Travis and get his story, I am sure it would confirm what we already know. You guys went out, got trashed and had sex. Dated a while after that, and then it didnt work out.

So with that said - I am out. Id lock the thread and let it drift into oblivion, but that goes against my idea of free speech.

later.

[FIGJAM]

phsycoligists say that rape is not a sexual act. Its about violence and power. This didnt sound like that. Legally, rape can be alot of things. Phsycologicaly it cant.

[Risky]

If you leave your nice shiny new vehicle on the street with the engine running, some one is going to take it for a ride.

The only thing I find compassion for is the fact that this was someone you knew for 10yrs. It's natural to think that you could let your guard down and this friend would take care of you. Perhaps this friend was just as intoxicated as you were, and his decision making was affected.

There were two actions here - his and yours. Your inability to take care of yourself is your responsibility, regardless of the small details. That does not mean that you were responsible for his raping you. It does mean that in this day of the independent woman, you failed to protect yourself. I'm sure this is hard to accept.

I know many women who are angry at themselves for not yelling, kicking, doing something to fight back, or allowing themselves to be so incapacitated.

I suggest a rape crisis group as a better venue for your pain.

[bm_cricket]

Okay, not to jump on the band wagon or anything but...

SF Burner described a situation I don't know much about... I still don't want to blame her. Her situation sounds .. weird.. I'm done talking about her example,.. But then again the thread isn't "I got raped at Burning Man" it's "Date Rape at Burning Man".. which is what I talk about next-->

Most of what I've been talking about is the way people (Burners or "normal people") should approach sex. Just ask first when the person is sober. It will prevent most of the confusion. Once you've made rules then go wild!

[Fire_Moose]

Or just stop fucking. Jesus Christ it's like you people need to have yer weiner in something/furchina full of weiner

[ygmir]

I'm hoping for thread drift............

[big baby jesus]

[quote="SFBurnergrrrl"]...I find it shocking that people have these views particularly within a community that should be forward thinking and, I would think, a bit more enlightened...[/quote]

Sorry SFBG. But my very short time in this community has taught me one thing and that is that these people are forwarding thinking. That's why no one is kissing your ass and taking your one sided story as gospel. You can come away from this as a victim and pissed that no one here bought into your pity party or you can realize that you're sort of a tool and you need to get your shit together.

Welcome to enlightenment.

[C.f.M.]

I don't understand why it's so hard to hear me saying that if she's drunk, don't stick anything inside her except water?[/i]

Great advice. For a man or woman sober enough to remember this, and act on it.

That, however, from what little information we have, is not this situation. Just as she was unable to say, get out of the truck, or say no, we don't know his status (except that some girl he'd allegedly been in love with, and friends with, for ten years all of a sudden gave him the go-ahead - including "laughing" when she woke up to find him going down on her). He might have not noticed she was sleeping, due to his intoxicated state.

We.don't.know.

As I've said for seven fucking pages, doesn't make it any less angering/sad/tragic, but doesn't give cause to consider this guy a rapist.


If I was fooling around drunk with a friend (who KNEW I had feelings for them) and we passed out together, and I woke up I'd feel confident givin' an ol' reach-around, pokey pokey wakey wakey. Now, if the person was unresponsive, I'd roll back over and go back to sleep (but that's never happened). Then tease them about it in the morning while they make me bacon.

I've been the one woked up by a little winkwinknudgenudge, after heavy drinking and passing out, and I've never, while half-passed out drunk, been unable to say something like "Fuck off! I'm sleeping! Save it for later! Knock it off!'

I don't find her situation weird or unusual at all, for several reasons/several aspects of the situation.

[Shambala]

I'm not sure is SFBG realizes how much credibilty she has given to every guy who has been accused of spousal abuse, rape, assault or just "scaring" their woman. It is long since known that in some cases this is used as a tool to gain the upper hand in divorces and child custody cases. Simply calling the police and making up a story gets the guy out of the house and a restraining order. Even saying that you "feel threatened" works. This is a vicious and powerful tool used by a small number of manipulative women--sometimes at the suggestion of their attorney. Women are not always the little helpless damsells they appear to be. Again, small amount of cases.

Is this the case with SFBG? Probably!

[bm_cricket]

I don't understand why it's so hard to hear me saying that if she's drunk, don't stick anything inside her except water?[/i]

Great advice. For a man or woman sober enough to remember this, and act on it.

That, however, from what little information we have, is not this situation. Just as she was unable to say, get out of the truck, or say no, we don't know his status (except that some girl he'd allegedly been in love with, and friends with, for ten years all of a sudden gave him the go-ahead - including "laughing" when she woke up to find him going down on her). He might have not noticed she was sleeping, due to his intoxicated state.

We.don't.know.

As I've said for seven fucking pages, doesn't make it any less angering/sad/tragic, but doesn't give cause to consider this guy a rapist.


If I was fooling around drunk with a friend (who KNEW I had feelings for them) and we passed out together, and I woke up I'd feel confident givin' an ol' reach-around, pokey pokey wakey wakey. Now, if the person was unresponsive, I'd roll back over and go back to sleep (but that's never happened). Then tease them about it in the morning while they make me bacon.

I've been the one woked up by a little winkwinknudgenudge, after heavy drinking and passing out, and I've never, while half-passed out drunk, been unable to say something like "Fuck off! I'm sleeping! Save it for later! Knock it off!'

I don't find her situation weird or unusual at all, for several reasons/several aspects of the situation.

I guess that's one difference between us. If I'm asleep I damn well want to be. I assume the same of any beautiful young (maybe drunk) naked woman who happens to pass out in my bed.

Maybe I don't get laid as often as I could but I think it's the right thing to do. I've had a funny look on more than one occasion when a naked woman was siting on top of me and I had the audacity to ask just what she did and didn't want to do. Ya know, checking boundaries. They were confused but they REALLY APPRECIATED THAT I ASKED. It's just ingrained in me. It's something I am trying to get everyone to do everywhere. It doesn't kill the heat of the moment any more than having to put on a condom. They both show a care and concern for the other person's mental, physical, (and baby producing) health!

[goathead]

I remember reading someplace about
attendee assumes the risk of responsibility of serious injury and or death....
or something to that affect.

maybe it should list all the other bad shit that can happen to you also?
sort of like all the bad side effects of drugs.

would defiantly increase the size of the ticket or decrease the size of the fine print.

[bm_cricket]

I remember reading someplace about
attendee assumes the risk of responsibility of serious injury and or death....
or something to that affect.

maybe it should list all the other bad shit that can happen to you also?
sort of like all the bad side effects of drugs.

would defiantly increase the size of the ticket or decrease the size of the fine print.

[goathead]

Very Good.

[bm_cricket]

And yes. I don't know anything about her situation.. and neither does she. I'm not really interested in discussing her situation since it's going nowhere and we really only have her side of the story.

[EmilyD]

It always comes down to water.

[ygmir]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSnqQFY8fZ0[/youtube]