Funny things we saw

[Chai Guy]

In 1969 we could have had our version of BM with thousands of people all getting along and everyone on acid

Uhhhh.... You mean like at Woodstock, oh wait 3 people were killed there.
or like Altamont, oh yeah 4 people killed there, one of them murdered....

[bearsnest]

No, like Sky River rock festival. Im sure all of this was before you were born. And sure... 3 people died at Woodstock out of several hundred thousand. A few of those were hell angle related and not sure about the others. I was not there...My point is not to say BM should be free financially...just that we as a country have lost our innocence. Believe you me it was much easier when they had no idea what we were doing.... there will always be cops to harass someone. I guess I was living in the past for a moment thinking there could be that way again. There are a lot of people on this forum who will know exactly what im talking about.... It wasn’t an age of raving and techno music it was an age of discovery. Not that I have any problems with raving or techno. Hell. I dance to it. But I prefer Santana live... bear

[que.f.o.]

Bear, I'm right there with you. Have often wondered why there seems to be such a bigoted view towards "those dirty hippies" on this board. Those of us born in the fifties and growing up in the sixties (just south of San Francisco) have first hand experience of how much of a positive impact the Hippie/Yippie lead peace movement/counter culture had on our society and culture. Who knows how many more soldiers would have died in Viet Nam, to name just one aspect.

[bearsnest]

Wow...you stirred up a lot of great memories... during the Vietnam War, I was a kid of 17 and witnessed several of my friends come home to our little town in Kentucky, in body bags. I was scared to death as I was approaching 18 and knew I would be drafted like them and also be killed. I joined the Army and was sent to Germany to spend 3 months in the black forest and spent much do my time there smoking as much Hash as possible from the back of a half track.

Guess they cant arrest me for it now as it was 25 years ago and the statue of limitations should cover me. HEHEHE.... Fast forward!!! Back from the frozen forest...hate the Military...have family problems...apply for discharge (hardship) denied...Go Awol...Go to San Francisco...Golden Gate Park...smoke hash from pipe draped in feathers being passed around so fast the cops on horse back could not keep up...

Get paranoid about being on the run and getting frisked by the cops... Bury my military Id on hippy Hill...feel better. Leave S.F....go to Utah...14 months later F>B>I> break down my door and haul me away... 3 months in Military stockade... Undesirable discharge...Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Drink Half gallon of red mountain wine on beach to celebrate.... become ill...no more red mountain wine... found LSD to be more to my Likening.... starting listing to Bob Dylan and writing my own anti war songs. Became a human.... still working on that one... My life in a handbag.... Thank You Golden Gate Park...and thank you clear light and window Paine. .Bear

[Patience]

In 1969 we could have had our version of BM with thousands of people all getting along and everyone on acid

Uhhhh.... You mean like at Woodstock, oh wait 3 people were killed there.
or like Altamont, oh yeah 4 people killed there, one of them murdered....

Denouncing Woodstock because 3 people died there is just as shortsighted as the people who talk shit about BM because someone died there this year.

[Rob the Wop]

Simple. I think most of the references to "dirty hippies" are targeted at the new brand of hippies croppping up. Burning Man is about self-reliance. The people that I see asking for water/food/crash space were always these "new hippies". I've had to kick some dread-locked bastard out of my tent and bed in 98'. He decided that he wanted to sleep in my tent and drink my water.

He was surprised and hurt when I kicked him out of the tent. He was actually upset that I wouldn't let him crash in my bed or share my supplies. Peace and love are great ideals, but this is NOT the Rainbow Gathering. Aggressiveness and chaos and self reliance are part and parcel. If you aren't planning on bringing what you need to survive, you shouldn't be going to Burning Man.

Another thing is the effect of the hippy culture on the event. There is a hostile/aggressive element to Burning Man, it's a definate undercurrent at times and in places. And it's accepted and realized. This is at odds to the philosophies held by most "hippy types".

And I won't even go into how tasty a food source hippies are when properly seasoned. Almost as good as roast raver.

[bearsnest]

shit..sorry, hit the button twice again... Im an idiot..Bear

[bearsnest]

Wow...I do understand where your coming from...I cant imagine having the Gaul to enter someone’s space and mooch off of them...sharing ideas, booze, whatever works well as long as all are contributing.

I honestly don’t know enough about ravers or the new hippies to want them on my menu...But life is a learning tree and im too old to jump off a stage and hope someone catches me...never could figure out what all the running into each other and bumping heads was about...figured they were trying to knock themselves silly..

.But what do I know? Im just an old hippy watching it all on TV. I crashed at a few places in the 60's but I washed the dishes and cleaned their houses while I was there. Never stayed more than 1 night in one place as to not wear out my welcome. Perhaps a new hippy would taste better than an old tough one. Please spare me...Bear

[III]

damn last post followup thing.

i'll just say ditto's to rob the wop...

[precipitate]

> I cant imagine having the Gaul to enter someone?s space and mooch off
> of them

Yeah, I've found that sending in a Frenchman to do a hippie's job doesn't
work well myself.

Personally, I have nothing against real hippies. It's the PLUR neohippies
that piss me off, and I've met very, very few real hippies under the age
of fifty.

Hippie story from this year that exemplifies the kind of behavior that I
find unacceptable.

[BlueBirdPoof]

> I cant imagine having the Gaul to enter someone?s space and mooch off
> of them

Yeah, I've found that sending in a Frenchman to do a hippie's job doesn't
work well myself..

I belive that was deGaulle. . .

[unjonharley]

The Blue Bird should be spanked for that.

[Alpha]

I've met very, very few real hippies under the age
of fifty.

I'm 32 and not what anyone would suspect as a hippie, yet I find myself identifying with bear's ideals of discovery (especially around burn time). And I'm moved by many of the same causes (environment, war, The Man).

And I've never been accused of being a freeloader.

Viva la Hippies!

[Angry Butterfly]

And I won't even go into how tasty a food source hippies are when properly seasoned. Almost as good as roast raver.

The reason Ravers taste really good roasted is because we are young and we eat so much sugar, it's like a honeybaked ham, if your going to eat a raver, best to go with an e'd out 16 year old, and not a psy trancer, they tend to be older than they look, and they are harder to catch. Real hippes arent as good because the meat is too old so you have to make stew, and it takes longer, fortunately, they do a lot of yoga so the meat isnt as tough as those damn baby boomers. You really have to render down most of those guys, I like making them into hamburgers, I call them HamBoomers. I also make baby boomers into meatloaf. . I personaly dont like to eat hippies who smoke a lot of weed, the meat is nice and tender, but it takes a lot of seasoning to cover the taste of patcholi and weed, but if I have to eat one of them, they make a nice curry.

[Angry Butterfly]

Ok, the "hippie" thing I have a problem with isn't a "hippie" thing really, its that having to love and be nice to everyone thing, that is just stupid and pretentious in it's own right. Some people aren't popular beacuse they are JERKS! Like my husband was in this fraternty and they made this big deal about including EVERYBODY, and as a result they ended up with some honest to god assholes, like this one guy who saw me with a squirt gun and asked to see it, then broke it in half because he "Didn't like squirt guns" It wasn't even one of those big ones, it was a little one I got as a special gift, and it had sentimental value, and I didnt even squirt him with it. I don't like the sound of people eating or the smell of coffee, but I put up with those things because I like people. So after a while the cool people left of their own accord, because who wants to hang out with jerks, you know?

[Isotopia]

Viva la Hippies!

No Alpha! Not you too...

[Silver]

Bearsnest,

From what you have said I guess that you are a couple of years older than I am but I remember the old times too. Where you and a bunch of people you just met pool your bread (money for you youngters) to buy a loaf of bread some lunch meat and a bottle of wine and it is share and share alike. But that was a different time and a very different venue. The neo-hippies that I came across at Burning Man are not like the old days. Then if you had a dollar or dime you threw it in and if you were broke the next time you were flush you threw that in. It does not and cannot work that way at Burning Man. The one neo-hippy that tried to latch on to me showed up with almost nothing and was wandering around looking for some one to supply the basics of existance. I gifted, I fed people, I gave away water and booze but I had no desire for a dependent and that was what this guy would have been. And here is the important part: He came there, way out in the desert expecting someone else to take care of him and only taking.

I had wanted to go to Burniing Man for years and when I got the chance I went but it was an effort and I expected no one to supply the basics. There was a very young couple camped near me and my guess is that their yearly income is close to what I give my kid to piss away but they had a tent and food and water; they were showing an effort. On the last day I probably gave them $200-300 worth of stuff that I could not fly out with but they never asked for anything and more importantly they did not expect anyone to look after them.

s

[Angry Butterfly]

Bearsnest,

From what you have said I guess that you are a couple of years older than I am but I remember the old times too. Where you and a bunch of people you just met pool your bread (money for you youngters) to buy a loaf of bread some lunch meat and a bottle of wine and it is share and share alike. But that was a different time and a very different venue. The neo-hippies that I came across at Burning Man are not like the old days. Then if you had a dollar or dime you threw it in and if you were broke the next time you were flush you threw that in. It does not and cannot work that way at Burning Man. The one neo-hippy that tried to latch on to me showed up with almost nothing and was wandering around looking for some one to supply the basics of existance. I gifted, I fed people, I gave away water and booze but I had no desire for a dependent and that was what this guy would have been. And here is the important part: He came there, way out in the desert expecting someone else to take care of him and only taking.

I had wanted to go to Burniing Man for years and when I got the chance I went but it was an effort and I expected no one to supply the basics. There was a very young couple camped near me and my guess is that their yearly income is close to what I give my kid to piss away but they had a tent and food and water; they were showing an effort. On the last day I probably gave them $200-300 worth of stuff that I could not fly out with but they never asked for anything and more importantly they did not expect anyone to look after them.

s

That is a great story silver, it shows how different people can be and how alike, too. It was really an effort for me to get out there, My husband and I used to be pretty well off until the dot com crash, Of course, when we were well off, we didn't have time to go to burning man, now we are too poor, fortunately we didnt do anything stupid lke buy an overpriced house in the valley or a car or run up debt, but extravagances like burning man are out of the question. My friend bought my ticket in exchange for some work I did for him, I grabbed some containers out of the neighbor's recycling and filled them with tap water, and bought a weeks worth of food at GDO for about 15 or twenty bucks, pop tarts, trail mix, canned fish and crackers, condensed juice, I didn't have a cooler, so I just bought stuff that didnt need to be refrigerated, and I went through my house for stuff I didn't need, to gift. I had plenty of stuff to gift and survive, but my friends who had extra money and food in coolers kept giving me stuff anyway, one guy in our camp is a doctor, and he had these really nice sausages, and maplee syrup and another girl works for the UN and bought us all Sushi on the way home! I was really embarrased because i LITERALY didnt have any money, so I planned on eating out of my pack all week, ( including meals on the road) and she totaly understood that not all of us could afford $20 all you can eat sushi, so she just bought it for like 12 people! Tha is what my friends are like, back when we had plenty of money, I used to get vegtables at the farmer's market for one of my friends who was out of work, now I am lucky if I can bring day old bread or two buck chuck when I go to his house for dinner, and he has money so if he wants me to go to a party or something else I cant afford, he will give me some stupid little job or something and buy my ticket "in exchange" or say he owes me for the vegtables. So the true spirit is still alive, I think there will always be moochers, and i think there always have been good people who share, the trick is knowing who is who.

[unjonharley]

Oh you damn kids don't know whats good for ya. The beat generation was the best. Then come the beatnic and screwed that up. So we turned to the hip. what happens?...we get the hippies. Don't know how the yuppie thing got started. That turned into frat boy. Now all we have is remnents. Sodo-hippies damn kids. All the time I've been pluging along doing my thing. The living has been good at times. Other times I got my ass kicked. The Harley got drunk one night and I ended up married to my "back bitch" We had some kids,sold the harley to pay the bills, went to work and then she died. Hooked up with another ole lady more kids. Ended up with six little brats. They grow up to be sodo-hippies. Mom told then they would never fill my tracks. They are out there working for the man.Love the kids Mom died a week after BM03 loved both my ladys. I'm still doing my thing. Some days are better than none. God Bless

[Angry Butterfly]

oh, man unjon, I wish i still know this lady who "wore out " 2 husbands, from Ithaca, you would make a great pair.
And I can't say I didn't fantasise about what city lights was like back in the day, but the rents too high in North Beach now, so all the poets live in Oakland.

[Raheer]

And I won't even go into how tasty a food source hippies are when properly seasoned. Almost as good as roast raver.

The reason Ravers taste really good roasted is because we are young and we eat so much sugar, it's like a honeybaked ham, if your going to eat a raver, best to go with an e'd out 16 year old, and not a psy trancer, they tend to be older than they look, and they are harder to catch. Real hippes arent as good because the meat is too old so you have to make stew, and it takes longer, fortunately, they do a lot of yoga so the meat isnt as tough as those damn baby boomers. You really have to render down most of those guys, I like making them into hamburgers, I call them HamBoomers. I also make baby boomers into meatloaf. . I personaly dont like to eat hippies who smoke a lot of weed, the meat is nice and tender, but it takes a lot of seasoning to cover the taste of patcholi and weed, but if I have to eat one of them, they make a nice curry.

I LOVE IT!!!

I'm writing a joke cookbook for some congeek friends of mine called To Serve Your Fellow Man; do you mind if I include some of your recipes?

Raheer

[stuart]

1. teenager
2. adopt 'no one understands us' attitude
3. grow up
4. romanticize years of youth
5. have kids
6. see kids doing things differently and fail to respect their unique culture
7. feel superior
8. your kids reach teenage years
9. goto 2

[bearsnest]

Well, I can certainly see all the things in your list that apply to a large portion of the population and the structured, no understanding parts of changing culture, however, I believe im only guilty of Romanticizing about my youth.........

What the fuck is wrong with that? Sorry, I lost it there for a second...

I am an admirer of youth and kids thinking that dying there hair orange and purple is something new, haven’t been around very long...I remember going to sock hops and getting into trouble for that... I have no problem with ravers, old hippies, new hippies or anyone who is different than me.

Just because I find it a little funny or strange that kids enjoy listing to four or five persons without any talent, what so ever standing on stage and beating on a guitar, nothing that could be construed as music, and screaming something like, fuck you, fuck you yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa fuck you fuck you yaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Not my kind of noise, but I guess one might pull a note or two out of it that can be said to actually be music. It is the social interaction that draws kids to be with other kids and if this is what is accepted as their music, than so be it. You might consider that our reasons for romanticizing about our youth and our music and founded in basic human survival.

Would I rather go to Burning Man and see Carlos Santana ripping great legible guitar licks out that tare deep into to soul. Yes...do I miss that and wish there were more bands that played music consisting of more than 4 chords...yes...

Do I think live music is better than computer generated techno stuff with a repetitive disco beat as its roots? Yes/// but this doesn’t mean I would deny others their personal choices. It doesn’t mean at all, that I can’t go to a party and dance all night or all week to techno stuff. Ill have a fucking blast...I just wont by the cd....

I wont criticize you or anyone for being who you are, whoever or whatever you are... things I have learned in my life are. Tolerance. As long as my humanity is not compromised.... Compassion, for those who are suffering from these worlds injustices.... understanding. That we are not all, cut from the same mold, and that diversity and individuality are our greatest strengths.

Don’t assume because we are older and have lived thru the raising of our kids. And watched them fall down as we did, that we are not good humans.... that we don’t have wisdom to offer...and that we cant or don’t except the difference between, the worlds people.

Do a little test...stand in front of a mirror and ask yourself if you remember who you were when you were, say 17... If you cant remember that person or if you do remember him or her but don’t remember what gave them there indivuality.them you have lost a bit of who you were... take that same situation.... your 35 now and standing in front of the mirror...your brain has developed and changed and what you have learned in your life has made you a different person, hopefully a better human.

And you try and remember that 17 year old angry, frustrated kid...but you cant because you have taken the energy from him and the anger from him and molded it into a rational thinking, fun loving, artistic guitar rippin Mo Fo that loves to go to Burning Man and plug in your amp and show the world who you are now.........

Now your 54, .fucking oldddddddddd man...and you wake up one morning and look into the mirror and say to yourself, , .what tha fuck happened...I have a pot belly, My hair is gray and I have no fucking idea who that guy is looking back at me... when this happens to you, and it is the face of inevitability, you will say to yourself....god I miss that great old techno music they use to have..

Remember that Sally? Sure hon.. Big hug...We used to party in the desert at Burning Man and consume all sorts of great zippers and stay up all night.... why can’t we go and do it again? Before we forget everything about that person in the mirror and what fun they had....

we may still have twenty years left before the age monster breaks our bodies so lets go do it Hon..........That old hippy and his old hippy wife will see you at BM in 04 and dance until our feet fall off or we get sleepy, which ever comes first...and we hope we can hang with you for a few hours one night and tell you the stories of Trading guitar licks with Taj Mahal in the green room.... Don’t deny us our great and sometimes painful memorie and we shall help welcome you to your future, Blessings, Bear

[Chai Guy]

6. see kids doing things differently and fail to respect their unique culture

6.5 Fail to see that it's really the same thing but with different clothes/music/hair styles.

[spaceboy]

Thank you Stuart. Couldn't agree more.

I've noticed this a lot on the eplaya... the waxing nostalgic negativity. "It was so much better back in (insert your cool threshhold date here)." Of course it was better. Hindsight is 20/20. The same goes for a lot of movements, a lot of music, and a lot of ideals. They were so much better "back then." Before "things changed."

I agree to this sometimes, but most of the time, I simply see new things as different. The BM experience is new for me every year, unique & different. Maybe you didn't have as much fun as last year, why? What can you do to make enjoyment for yourself out there?

--Back on topic--
One of the funniest things I saw was a dood driving along on his Segway scooter thingy make too sharp of a turn in the dust and do a faceplant

[blyslv]

Bearsnest, that was a wonderful post! I'm 41 now and on the verge of many big changes coming up, what you wrote resonated with me.

---------------------------

It's paradoxical that we want to gift those people who need it least. The "hippies" who expect are annoying, but if you make an effort people will always respond positively to that. I think the anger comes from the fact not that they are hippies but that they're freeloaders who happen to have long hair. Someone gifted me a Camp Cherry CD which is an awesome mix. But about the 3rd or 4th time I listened to it I really heard the opening monologue about a woman who described BM only in terms of what she consumed, saw and recieved.

"BM is about going to the next blinking light." Well yes, but there is a helluva lot more and I just wish she would talk about that a little.

A rant a day keeps the doctor away.

[precipitate]

> I think the anger comes from the fact not that they are hippies but that
> they're freeloaders who happen to have long hair.

The neohippie ethic has freeloading as one of its tenets. I couldn't care
less about a person's appearance (though patchouli makes my nose itch).
It's the attitude. And 99.9% of the neohippies I've met have an attitude I
despise.

I also discovered that the neohippie pickup line is, "I know you." As in,
I've seen you at a Rainbow Gathering/Phish show/Ren Faire, yadda
yadda. And for whatever reason, a flat, "No. You don't." doesn't even
register. They just keep talking like you didn't answer. But maybe that's
the drugs.

[stuart]

hey bear, nice post

I am too old to be considered young by most and too young to be considered old by the other half at 35.

a point or two on music.

before you get on yer platform about how great some of the artists you grew up with were in comparison to what you may hear a lot of on the playa or elsewhere you must consider that your frame of reference might be radically different. You are attune to particular aspects of music. Music consists of 4 basic parts, timbre, rhythm, harmony, melody. First thing we may notice lacking from this list is words or lyrics. Aint no need for them for something to be music. Now consider Dylan, remove the words and you have some very basic hormonic structures, absolutely no inventiveness timbrally or rhythmically and some pleasant but certainly not groundbreaking melodies sung rather nasally. Don't get me wrong, I respect the shit out of Dylan as a lyricist/songwriter/performer but objectively speaking, giving a neutral frame of reference, it is musically a little plain. Now, I sure am not gonna back any 3 piece band that grinds out 3 power chords while screaming 'fuck you' backed by the most banal of 4/4 rock beats, I find very little to offer in any of the 4 components of music there. What needs to be understood though is that there is some very nice harmonic, rhythmic and certainly timbral/orchestrational work being done in some corners of what many generically might refer to as 'techno'. When you ad a gifted DJ who has an intuitive sense (because I doubt most DJs know what a german aug6 is let alone how you might resolve one) of how to transition from one track into another you occasionally end up with some very magical moments.

[BlueBirdPoof]

I doubt most DJs know what a german aug6 is

The Tuetonic answer to the powerful mach5, of course.

[bearsnest]

Nice post Stuart....The road to understanding is paved with acceptance and tolerance. You are ovioslly well versed in music and perhaps even
Schooled, as I am not. But I do understand music and all its components.

I am self-taught and have played guitar for thirty-five years. I have written several hundred songs and have one Cd out and am writing my second one this winter. I doubt it would appeal to you but perhaps you’d find some enjoyment by listing to it. Mellow, environmental soft rock (kind of) anyway,

Im not closed minded or stuck in some kind of romantic time warp. Im here and now and taking this all in. We choose what we wish to absorb...I won the song writers contest at the Haines fair in Haines Alaska and got to open for Taj.that was a lot of fun. The next year I took second place and if a winner I would of opened for Leo Cocky (forgive the spelling)

Music is a very big part of my life and shapes my existence. Ive never been to Burning Man and I am here to learn from all. Not to cause conflict or attack anyone. This is a forum of like-minded people at least in the sense we all share artistic goals and dreams. Perhaps we can play walkin blues together... The Elvin Bishop version , Bear