Police, Drug Sniffing Dogs & the Law Updated 2013

[some seeing eye]

Like all message boards this one is filled with nonsense and misinformation in the spirit of free expression. It's the Internet! There is all kinds of hopeful speculation on how to evade enforcement of the drug laws. The Supreme Court has just ruled unanimously and broadly in favor of drug sniffing dogs as probable cause for a full search.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/02/what-the-dog-knows.html

Dogs are capable of smelling traces of residual contraband use which can become the basis for a perfectly legal search. It is a broad ruling that law enforcement will surely use in their work.

You can search for more news on the case "Florida v Harris".

[Simon of the Playa]

the judicial equivalent of a "throw down" gun...

[TomServo]

Here's a novel idea! DON"T BRING ILLEGAL DRUGS INTO NEVADA...OF ALL STATES!!

Still..I'm a huge believer in "Natural Selection." If you didn't do your homework, you get what you deserve!

[junglesmacks]

Exactly.

Have someone else do it for you.

[TomServo]

Have someone else do it for you.

"Radical Self Reliance" has NEVER been a Hippie strong point.

[Dr. Pyro]

Or taking showers for that matter.

[TomServo]

That's news?

[junglesmacks]

"If it's good enough for Larry, it's good enough for me!

[TomServo]

Larry has First Camp!

[CornMan]

It could be that a lot of these law enforcement officials really do believe that many of society's ills will vanish if they could just irradiate all use of marijuana. They're visualizing some kind of golden future for all mankind once the common people become obedient to the law.

[TomServo]

It could be that a lot of these law enforcement officials really do believe that many of society's ills will vanish if they could just irradiate all use of marijuana. They're visualizing some kind of golden future for all mankind once the common people become obedient to the law.

Whatever..they WORK for the state of NEVADA! I won't argue the rights or wrongs of drug use...I don't really care. But when a stupid hippie walks into a police station with weed, THAT is fucking funny!! Think of Nevada as a Giant police station!

[CornMan]

Think of Nevada as a Giant police station!

But Nevada is a state.

[TomServo]

Think of Nevada as a Giant police station!

But Nevada is a state.

A very Anti Drug "State!"

[Simon of the Playa]

It could be that a lot of these law enforcement officials really do believe that many of society's ills will vanish if they could just irradiate all use of marijuana. They're visualizing some kind of golden future for all mankind once the common people become obedient to the law.

yes, much better than paraquat.

[CornMan]

Oops, eradicate. This ones getting blamed on spell check.

[TT120]

The dog doesn't even have to make a positive signal, the handler just has to say he did and the search is on.

[CornMan]

The dog doesn't even have to make a positive signal, the handler just has to say he did and the search is on.

If a cop pulls you over because your license plate light is not bright enough, asks to search your car, there is no advantage to saying you do not consent to a search if the cop has a dog. The cop can claim a a hit by the dog's behavior, so the search is on. Even if the search does not result in finding whatever the dog originally signaled to detect, anything illegal found during the search can be used against the defendant. For example, if the extensive search results in any kind of propane apparatus modified away from its intended use, the person could be found guilty of terrorist activity and put in prison for many years.

[DrYes]

Here's a novel idea! DON"T BRING ILLEGAL DRUGS INTO NEVADA...OF ALL STATES!!

Still..I'm a huge believer in "Natural Selection." If you didn't do your homework, you get what you deserve!

Or just don't be an idiot about it. I have yet to hear a single story about someone being busted at or on the way to BM that didn't make a mistake (broken taillight, visible baggies in tent, smoking out on the playa, offering drugs to/taking drugs from a stranger, etc etc.)

There are so many easy targets out there that all one needs to do is behave with a modicum of sensibility and let the tiger eat the slower runners.

[Simon of the Playa]

what Dr. yes Said...

don't be a stupid.

[Elliot]

All right, DrYes posted while I was typing. "Preview" is useful.

There is one element that rarely comes up in these discussions.
Let us use the above example of the propane fire art device. When the officer says "Hey, what's this?", do you respond "It is a flame thrower and I found the design on the internet", or do you respond "It is a propane poofer. These are used in outdoor displays similar to fireworks, but they are much safer since there are no explosives and nothing leaves the ground"?

I have no experience with searches for contraband, except the routine procedure with commercial trucks at the Canadian border.

But I drove 18-wheelers for 27 years, and that work involves frequent interactions with law enforcement officers, mostly at weigh stations and similar commercial vehicle inspection facilities. And truckers are on the average notorious as rude and uncooperative scofflaws, so the typical officer is likely to be apprehensive.

Well, in what must be a couple hundred interactions over those 27 years, I think I was spoken to harshly maybe twice, and that was when I richly deserved it.

Here is an example: The very first thing a trucker will usually be asked at an inspection is "Gimme your log book". The log book is a self-reporting record of hours worked and hours slept, which is strictly regulated. Drivers routinely fudge. The fines are huge. So here I was being signaled in for a routine inspection, and I pulled my log book out of my briefcase to be ready. The inspector spoke with me for a little while, then proceeded with the inspection -- no log book.

Near the end of the inspection I was putting away my driver license and such, and I was puzzled that he had not asked for the log book. Yes, I reminded him -- I did not want to be perceived as sneaking the log book out of sight before he was completely done with me. And he replied: "No thanks, I do not need to see your log book -- I have seen you."

What do you think the inspector's attitude would have been if I had opened our conversation with "Dammit, pig, I was inspected just last week and I'm in a fucking hurry today!" ?

Just my two cents.

[BBadger]

The dog doesn't even have to make a positive signal, the handler just has to say he did and the search is on.

If a cop pulls you over because your license plate light is not bright enough, asks to search your car, there is no advantage to saying you do not consent to a search if the cop has a dog. The cop can claim a a hit by the dog's behavior, so the search is on. Even if the search does not result in finding whatever the dog originally signaled to detect, anything illegal found during the search can be used against the defendant. For example, if the extensive search results in any kind of propane apparatus modified away from its intended use, the person could be found guilty of terrorist activity and put in prison for many years.

No. Under no circumstances whatsoever should you consent to a search. If the cops want to fake a hit by the dog, then it's going to happen. However, don't just open the door to them tearing your belongings apart in some search just because you think it's inevitable.

[Simon of the Playa]

Near the end of the inspection I was putting away my driver license and such, and I was puzzled that he had not asked for the log book. Yes, I reminded him -- I did not want to be perceived as sneaking the log book out of sight before he was completely done with me. And he replied: "No thanks, I do not need to see your log book -- I have seen you."

and this is the Jedi Mind Trick known as Social Dynamics

don't be the droids they are looking for.

[Elliot]

...and this is the Jedi Mind Trick known as Social Dynamics

...where we read: "The fundamental assumption of the field is that individuals are influenced by one another's behavior."

Methinks this belongs under Fundamental Life Skills, but fundamental does not necessarily mean widespread.


I better stop harping on this.

[Lonesomebri]

Some people not only use self-preservation when regarding a police state, they internalize it until anyone not happily following the dictates of the police state, even in private and cautiously, must be simply stupid, all of them. There is a certain pride in following orders, and blanket contempt for people willing to break the rules. Be smart, be cautious, know your rights, use the crosswalk, never break the law, or never let 'em know you are. What are the sodemy laws like in Nevada?

[Mojojita]

My very favorite rule I have heard regarding this issue is, "Never break more than one law at a time". If you have pot, don't break the speed limits. If there is a dead body in your trunk, be sure you don't have an open beer in the cab.

[Dr. Pyro]

That's always been my reasoning: Never do two stupid things at once. One's bad enough, but usually managable.

[Elliot]

Local news around Clearlake consists of little but such cases!

[1durphul]

It is so bizarre to me that burners, of all people, would accept this obvious negation of the Fourth Amendment as the fault of the people who fall victim to this violation of their rights.

[Simon of the Playa]

It is so bizarre to me that burners, of all people, would accept this obvious negation of the Fourth Amendment as the fault of the people who fall victim to this violation of their rights.

for me its mostly about not liking the bologna sandwiches on white bread that they serve for lunch every day in the pershing county jail.

im practical that way.

[Earthwalker]

I asked a cop (detective) friend of mine about this the other day after going back and forth about it on this board...here's the general conversation:

Me: hey, got a question. So let's say I'm rolling up to the gates at Coachella, a festival known for illegal drug use/illicit behavior, etc. I'm waiting in line and a cop says "hey, hows it going? you guys ready for some music? yeah, that's cool, so you have any drugs?" Will saying "no" be something that can be held against me later if it turns out I do have drugs?

Him: Not likely something that would come into play

Me: so after I say no I don't have drugs, and they ask me if they can search my car, and I say respectfully "actually I do mind, sir; I do not give consent" won't that just make them annoyed and get on a power trip and then be like "ok, so ya wanna play that game, huh? well i'm getting a dog". Aren't I just screwed at that point if I did have something?

Him: Well a) if they are going to get a dog, they have to do so in a reasonable amount of time (Illinois v Caballes), as in the amount of time it would take to do a routine traffic stop; say 15 minutes. b) yes, if they do get the dog and they hit, or they are willing to lie about it hitting, then yes, you're screwed

Me: so then why don't they just walk a dog up and down the line of cars the entire time and thereby check every car?

Him: resources. And most of them don't want to harass everyone. They JUST WANT TO WEED OUT THE IDIOTS

It may be different in Nevada, where you can utilize prostitutes, buy automatic weapons and gamble all you want, but can't smoke pot (which is obviously worse than any of those other three), but here in Cali, they have other things to do. Some hipster smoking a little chron isn't really a concern to them. Same with massage parlors. They want to bust murderers, drug traffickers, domestic violence, rape, kidnapping, etc.

So like others said, best bet, obviously, is bring nothing. Next best bet (since the idea that no one out there has anything is a bit silly) is to not be an idiot. Arrive sober. Have your taillights and headlights (or is it lamps? i got yelled at last time) working. Don't block your license plate. Dont have illegal things sitting out. Don't have an overpacked car. Wear your seatbelts. Be respectful. And (in my opinion) it might not be a bad idea to wear lame (i mean normal) people default clothes until you get on the Playa, or at least to the greeters. I plan on showing up in a clean minivan dressed like the good suburbanite that I am. Hell sir, good day sir, we are actually here to document this most unusual of social experiments for our college newspaper. Oh yes, that is a Bush/Cheney sticker on the back. We love those darn guys, don't you? Oh, sorry, is my NRA sticker partially obstructing my license plate? Goshdarnit, I'll fix that just as soon as we get to our camping spot.