Sanddog42 wrote:Trishntek wrote: if someone is asking, "What should we be protesting exactly?" It exemplifies the ignorance which got us into this mess in the first place.
Actually, I was asking because I wanted your perspective without bringing in my preconceptions. I was hoping two burners could have a civil exchange of ideas, but you would rather call me ignorant.
But I'm willing to give it another try. I'm open to being persuaded. So, specifically, what do you protest? All the items you listed are pretty general except No.2, but the Federal Reserve existed well before the current administration, so I don't see how that's particularly relevant. And as for No.1, TARP was signed into law by the previous administration, so that's not really relevant to "the prez."
Of the rest, I'll pose a few questions to get a more specific idea of what you're actually talking about.
1. Exactly hich "private companies" do you mean?
2. Who exactly are the "unworthy" you refer to?
4. Which bureaucracies exactly?
5. Which local and state concerns, exactly?
Trishntek wrote:What I said had NOTHING to do with you!
Trishntek wrote: So don't be putting words in my mouth.
Sanddog42 wrote:Trishntek wrote:WTrishntek wrote:,,,, who the fuck said anything about the current administration being the sole problem?
Trishntek wrote:Education has traditionally been in the hands of the state and local governments. The fed got involved within my lifetime,,,,, don't remember when, but the Dept. of Education interferes with states on a continuous basis.
Trishntek wrote:The Dept. of Interior grabs land from states which inhibits their ability to develop any source of income other than tourism.
Trishntek wrote:Big oil is the only industry you decry gubmint support of out of all they do? What about big unions, car manufacturing, banking, news media, educational institutions, agriculture, water, power, mining, import/export, rail, air, sea,,,, name an industry gubmint has NOT influenced who succeeds and who fails?
Trishntek wrote:Arizona's ability to protect their own CITIZENS is being challenged in the courts right now! And that law exists in other states,,,, California and Rhode Island for example. Why does gubmint not hold cities accountable which do NOT uphold federal law?
Trishntek wrote:You seem to think the worst is behind us,,,, that the banks had us over a barrel,,,, TARP, STIMULUS, and whatever other bullshit name they call the rest of them, is simply pouring money into a bottomless pit. Do you not understand that our economy is hanging on pretty paper full of empty promises? The debt we are in now,,,,, if the entire United States Gross National Product was poured into this hole,,,,, without any more spending,,,, for TEN YEARS with interest,,,, might,,,, just might break us even by 2020.
Trishntek wrote:As it is now, those who love the U.S. Constitution and the PRINCIPLES of this nations founding are considered "extremists". Meanwhile, self-proclaimed communists, socialists, tax evaders and individuals of questionable character are considered,,,,,,, our LEADERS!
I absolutely refuse to continue spoon-feeding you information already demonstrated in other threads. Some choose to be ignorant because of their unwillingness to learn. Others learn by their unwillingness to be ignorant.
Education has traditionally been in the hands of the state and local governments. The fed got involved within my lifetime,,,,, don't remember when, but the Dept. of Education interferes with states on a continuous basis.
The Dept. of Interior grabs land from states which inhibits their ability to develop any source of income other than tourism.
Big oil is the only industry you decry gubmint support of out of all they do? What about big unions, car manufacturing, banking, news media, educational institutions, agriculture, water, power, mining, import/export, rail, air, sea,,,, name an industry gubmint has NOT influenced who succeeds and who fails?
Arizona's ability to protect their own CITIZENS is being challenged in the courts right now! And that law exists in other states,,,, California and Rhode Island for example. Why does gubmint not hold cities accountable which do NOT uphold federal law?
As it is now, those who love the U.S. Constitution and the PRINCIPLES of this nations founding are considered "extremists".
Token wrote:This is why I insist on the burn barrel, whiskey and rope bondage for this kind of talk.
I do however admire some of these quotable moments being in print and easily referenced.
There are some gems in there.

...................................................Token wrote:The most compatible classification of Burning Man and how it operates is Anarchism.
Yes, Anarchy in the US, and it's not a punk rock movement.
Don't confuse Anarchy with the common American interpretation of the wild west, cats and dogs sleeping together, bands of marauders raping pillaging and burning, and Zombieland. That is Chaos, quite different than Anarchy and Anarchism.
For centuries, Anarchism has been a political, social, economic and moral philosophy....
The CO wrote:Token wrote:The most compatible classification of Burning Man and how it operates is Anarchism.
Yes, Anarchy in the US, and it's not a punk rock movement.
Don't confuse Anarchy with the common American interpretation of the wild west, cats and dogs sleeping together, bands of marauders raping pillaging and burning, and Zombieland. That is Chaos, quite different than Anarchy and Anarchism.
For centuries, Anarchism has been a political, social, economic and moral philosophy....
Bravo Token!
My favorite game to play with the street rats that call themselves anarchists nowadays: Strike up a conversation with them about Emma Goldman or Andrew Baikunin, and wait for them to say "who?".
Part of being an anarchist (philosophically et. al) nowadays, is that one must accept that your preferred state is pretty much impossible with large groups of humans.
knowmad wrote:Over a century ago, a famous writer quipped that the industrial worker was "a mere appendage of flesh on a machine of iron." Today, that description can be applied across the board: each of us is no more than an appendage of flesh on the vast machine that is our society, for our lives and communities are atomized into isolated sectors. If we want to change the whole of life, we must first become whole again.
let us look at the integrated, holistic life of the "savage" or young adventurer. For her, there is no distinction between working and playing, between spending time with her friends and lovers, taking care of her practical needs, and seeking pleasure. She moves through the world, finding sustenance and getting exercise from the same activities, using her creativity with her friends to weave a daily life that is both challenging and familiar, at once adventure, livelihood, and religious ceremony.
Perhaps you've experienced this kind of lifestyle before, when you were doing something that incorporated every aspect of your being into a perfect equilibrium. We all need to find ways to integrate our lives, so that we will not always be trying to make impossible choices between equally necessary pieces of ourselves. . . and if we want to make this world a better place, we have to find ways of living that are revolutionary in their very nature; for politics, activism, or social responsibility as a separate domain of life, as a hobby or part-time operation, can never outweigh the effects of the rest of life.
Just as our individual lives are fragmented by compartmentalization, our society is fragmented by ever-increasing specialization. Every sphere of life is relegated to the care of an elite core of specialists, who administer it without consulting the rest of us. Every profession is divided and subdivided: from scientist to chemist, from chemist to biochemist, from biochemist to pharmaceutical neurobiologist until no one outside a handful of experts can understand what is going on. At that point, the division of knowledge itself becomes authoritarian, for it grants small groups of people vast powers over others who cannot even fathom what those powers are.
When being active is no longer an off-putting specialty, and partisans of different struggles are able to find common cause, the world will finally change.
Somewhere across the world there is an underground circus or punk rock band on tour as you read this. Unbeknownst to themselves and others, they carry with them the seeds of a new and yet ancient social structure, which could totally transform the ways all of us live and interact. Within the group, responsibilities are shared and valued equally, and whenever someone wants a break from doing something or is curious to learn about something else, people switch roles. No one member's participation is less important than anyone else's, whatever their individual strengths may be, for the cooperation and contentment of each is crucial to the functioning of the group. Each member's daily activities satisfy her various desires: she feels at home with her friends while she travels through new environments, she makes art that simultaneously entertains and educates others, she gets exercise and learns new things repairing the van, she has adventures collecting food and other supplies through an urban hunting and gathering that does not conflict with her anti-consumerist ethics. Best of all, she no longer has to distinguish between her own needs and those of the people around her, which eliminates the greater part of the stress of human interaction. Together all the participants function as an extended family, and the positive atmosphere is so strong that over time they are able to lose some members and gain others without losing any momentum.
Yes, we'd have to downsize and restructure our whole civilization to follow the lead this merry little band offers, but for the past few centuries we've been struggling to deal with the difficulties of not living in such communities—and we haven't had much success. If we're going to struggle anyway, it might as well be towards a utopia in which our lives encompass can everything the cosmos has to offer.
but really, we are deconstructing our civilization any way, why not rebuild it into something that makes sense.
Trishntek wrote:
...
Knowmad, you speak of the utopia where everyone willingly participates in a common project for the good of all. I do not think you would go so far as to say we all have equal gifts, talents and abilities. But I do agree that, when people are truly free to practice, perfect and exercise what they truly enjoy doing, work becomes play,,,, or visa versa.
That is something I experienced at Burning Man. Each of our camp members brought unique abilities and gifts. We meshed together so well that sometimes it was like Radar O'reilly all over the place. Needs were anticipated by others without speech. Stuff got done without a discussion.
knowmad wrote:...
If we're going to struggle anyway, it might as well be towards a utopia in which our lives can encompass everything the cosmos has to offer.
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