COUNTDOWN to the APOCALYPSE

[Simon of the Playa]

OMG...they found jimmy hoffa

[Savannah]

OMG...they found jimmy hoffa

(And a good read, once the joke was past.)

[knowmad]

gonna suck for Mars if they find oil there.

[Ugly Dougly]

the are preparing Mankind for the enormous shock of finding metamorphous rocks.

[burner von braun]

Found something, they have

[theCryptofishist]

the are preparing Mankind for the enormous shock of finding metamorphous rocks.

Pffft! Kafka already did that.

[H.G.Crosby]

don't blame me, i voted for meteor impact

[FIGJAM]

I get that when I drink too many corona's.

[TomServo]

Mexican beer will do that to you.

[moonrise]

YOU HAVE 57 DAYS UNTIL THE END OF YOUR WORLD AS YOU KNOW IT.


it's about fucking time.


as in, you better fuck while there is still time.

Just a friendly reminder!!!!!!

[gyre]

"I had a chemistry teacher who had worked for Ball Aerospace during the Cold War.
He had been developing a system to very rapidly inflate a large balloon mounted on a ballistic missile.
The idea was that in the immediate aftermath of a nuclear war when most communications systems had been knocked out there would be a few of these special missiles in silos here and there which could be launched.
When the missile reached the top of its arc in the upper atmosphere it would deploy the balloon which had to be able to inflate in just a few seconds and carry a heavy payload of radio repeater equipment, ELF antenna, and long life batteries.
The systems were supposed to provide a temporary communications link for remaining military command sheltered in their bunkers.
I think that he said that they were using some sort of exotic lift gas, not helium, but I don’t remember if he said what it was.
I also don’t know whether system was ever developed to a deployable point or if it remained only experimental.
He said that that was still classified."

(Ammonia perhaps?)

[H.G.Crosby]

phpBB [video]

[BAS]

"I had a chemistry teacher who had worked for Ball Aerospace during the Cold War.
He had been developing a system to very rapidly inflate a large balloon mounted on a ballistic missile.
The idea was that in the immediate aftermath of a nuclear war when most communications systems had been knocked out there would be a few of these special missiles in silos here and there which could be launched.
When the missile reached the top of its arc in the upper atmosphere it would deploy the balloon which had to be able to inflate in just a few seconds and carry a heavy payload of radio repeater equipment, ELF antenna, and long life batteries.
The systems were supposed to provide a temporary communications link for remaining military command sheltered in their bunkers.
I think that he said that they were using some sort of exotic lift gas, not helium, but I don’t remember if he said what it was.
I also don’t know whether system was ever developed to a deployable point or if it remained only experimental.
He said that that was still classified."

(Ammonia perhaps?)

Could be just about anything, just so long as it is lighter than air. (I've been occasionally checking in on a forum for people who want to build their own airships, and a small percentage promote alternative lifting gasses.) Hydrogen and helium are the best because it takes far less gas to lift stuff with them. Hot air is also popular since it is essentially free-- but if you have ever seen a hot air balloon, you have a visual for how much of it is needed to lift just a small basket. Of course, the military isn't about efficiency, and I don't know what their reason for using something other than helium (which used to be stockpiled as a strategic reserve, until Reagan. Which is why the prices are now high. Which is why people are talking alternatives on the small blimp forums.) I'm not sure what ammonia would have done for the balloon.

Any idea when during the Cold War the program was? The Internet was designed as a communication system which could survive a limited nuclear war, so maybe it made the program obsolete?

[BAS]

I just finished a temp job at the Red Cross (one of their regional centers is not that far from me-- I may have to modify my zombie rise survival plan to take advantage of that). During orientation we were told that we should expect a plague in the not too distant future. I suppose that the Red Cross would know about such things. I'm kind of rooting for a zombie plague, myself, but so far no one has asked me.

[gyre]

Maybe ammonia for rocket transport?
Only a guess.

I don't know a date, but 50s-60s was the hot period for wild science.
I've heard stories of disasters that were no doubt classified, and may still be.

I used to live on a route they practiced nuclear bomb runs on in the big stuff.
Blew out the kitchen window once.
Very low at mach something.

[BAS]

If it was the '50's or 60's they may or may not have finished it, then. Arthur C. Clarke hadn't even pointed out you could place satellites in in stationary orbit for global communications yet. (And, inadvertently, avoided becoming one of the wealthiest people in human history by not patenting the concept. He managed to do very well for himself anyway, of course.)

I've pretty much exhausted my knowledge of alternative lifting gasses. If I ever get to build my airship (which I would bring to Burning Man! So what if deserts and a lifter than air are not a good combination? You just have to plan for it!) I intend to use either helium or hot air-- both are well known and proven for lift. And not likely to catch fire if some idiot gets carried away.

Ugh. Need to get away from the computer.

[BAS]

So if it really happens, we(40K full fledgies) Know that power will be gone....how will we find each other...say? Meet near playa....take over the fenced part of Empire say...April 20th 2013....and yes we can all fuck there too SImon!

Pack list is the same, but with some of the items RETURNING...

GUNS and AMMO!Lots and LOTS of Ammo! Damn, we prolly wont be able to shoot for fun..Oh I know Marksmen classes! (sign me up!)
Plant starts! all seeds!!!!
FEATHERS, you know for bedding....
ALL leather, for clothing, and possible eating if it gets real bad....you know, Doc martin stew!
Pharmaceutics, unfortunately the antibiotic kinds...the new LSD.
Fuels: Unleaded, leaded, propane, white gas, lamp oil, kerosene, petroleum products...etc( because we will be dehydrated and like Simon says we gotta fuck!)
Material: lots and lots of whatever is in your closets,(sheets) in your sewing room,hemp,twine.
ALL tools, ya, in your normal overly prepared list anyway...
Burner Doctors and nurses grab an autoclave or two, will ya...

lists are good, because we get sidetracked...ya know.

Guns and ammo? Hm, I don't have any, since guns and troubles with depression just aren't that good a mix. Plus, based on my experiences in Boy Scouts, decades ago, the safest place to be if I have a gun is directly IN FRONT of whatever it is I think I am shooting at. A natural shot I ain't! (But maybe I should reconnect with that one guy I used to work with who wound up a sniper in the military because, the first time they let him fire a gun, he hit the center of the bulls-eye-- over and over again, and wondered what the big deal was.)

Plant seeds of all types? Let me see if I can find some ragweed, stinging nettle, poison oak, etc. (I'll fill in what others have neglected.)
Feathers? I'd have to go looking for those, since I have no avians in my heritage.
Leather-- not a whole lot of it, not even much on my footwear. (A lot of synthetics, which tend to be more durable.) Well, I can stand to lose a few pounds. (Forty, fifty, ...)
Pharmaceuticals...? I'll get MY meds first, and then see if I can get any others. Damn-- this ISN'T a medical marijuana state!
Uh, I got one or two tiny propane cylinders around here somewhere...
I've got a LOT of crap, er, "raw material" in my closets, so I am good on this item. Now, as far as some way to haul all that stuff 2,000+ miles, er, that could be a problem.
Tools-- I DO have an assortment of those, of all quality levels, and sometimes even what I need.
Doctors and nurses! Cool! I will have to go out and round up some of those! (And autoclaves..., I'll need to talk with them about those. Actually, maybe I should just see what I can grab at the Red Cross supply center-- both equipment and personnel. Might not get a full doctor or nurse, but might get "close enough with lots of field experience.)

All of which reminds me, I still need to update my zombie apocalypse survival plan.

[Ugly Dougly]

GAS? Did someone say gas?
My techie brother in law was playing with some argon. You know, helium makes your voice go up in pitch. Since argon is heavier, I guess it makes your voice go down.

[Ugly Dougly]

So if it really happens, we(40K full fledgies) Know that power will be gone....how will we find each other...say? Meet near playa....take over the fenced part of Empire say...April 20th 2013....and yes we can all fuck there too SImon!

Pack list is the same, but with some of the items RETURNING...

GUNS and AMMO!Lots and LOTS of Ammo! Damn, we prolly wont be able to shoot for fun..Oh I know Marksmen classes! (sign me up!)
Plant starts! all seeds!!!!
FEATHERS, you know for bedding....
ALL leather, for clothing, and possible eating if it gets real bad....you know, Doc martin stew!
Pharmaceutics, unfortunately the antibiotic kinds...the new LSD.
Fuels: Unleaded, leaded, propane, white gas, lamp oil, kerosene, petroleum products...etc( because we will be dehydrated and like Simon says we gotta fuck!)
Material: lots and lots of whatever is in your closets,(sheets) in your sewing room,hemp,twine.
ALL tools, ya, in your normal overly prepared list anyway...
Burner Doctors and nurses grab an autoclave or two, will ya...

lists are good, because we get sidetracked...ya know.

Back in the day, I read every book about survival I could get my paws on. As I recall, Mel Tappan was one of the least wild-eyed of the authors.

He said that you don't want to be a refugee. It's not romantic. Ask one of our refugee immigrants what kind of picnic they endured. Get a spot, find a way to raise most of your food right there, and prepare to dig in.

Vegetable seeds? You should be practicing your garden skills now; it's probably more important than marksmanship.

Scoped hunting rifle for survival? You think that millions of people can make a living from hunting a few deer? They'll become extinct in days.
Oh, that's going to be for self-protection? I doubt that anyone needs a long-range weapon for self-defense.

I have a book When There Is No Doctor. It's for living in 3rd world countries, but guess what? Yeah. You might need that.
Some survivalists go as far as having their appendixes and tonsils removed proactively. That's kind of expensive; if I could afford that, I'd probably get a "vacation home" instead.

[knowmad]

So if it really happens, we(40K full fledgies) Know that power will be gone....how will we find each other...say? Meet near playa....take over the fenced part of Empire say...April 20th 2013....and yes we can all fuck there too SImon!

Pack list is the same, but with some of the items RETURNING...

GUNS and AMMO!Lots and LOTS of Ammo! Damn, we prolly wont be able to shoot for fun..Oh I know Marksmen classes! (sign me up!)
Plant starts! all seeds!!!!
FEATHERS, you know for bedding....
ALL leather, for clothing, and possible eating if it gets real bad....you know, Doc martin stew!
Pharmaceutics, unfortunately the antibiotic kinds...the new LSD.
Fuels: Unleaded, leaded, propane, white gas, lamp oil, kerosene, petroleum products...etc( because we will be dehydrated and like Simon says we gotta fuck!)
Material: lots and lots of whatever is in your closets,(sheets) in your sewing room,hemp,twine.
ALL tools, ya, in your normal overly prepared list anyway...
Burner Doctors and nurses grab an autoclave or two, will ya...

lists are good, because we get sidetracked...ya know.

Back in the day, I read every book about survival I could get my paws on. As I recall, Mel Tappan was one of the least wild-eyed of the authors.

He said that you don't want to be a refugee. It's not romantic. Ask one of our refugee immigrants what kind of picnic they endured. Get a spot, find a way to raise most of your food right there, and prepare to dig in.

Vegetable seeds? You should be practicing your garden skills now; it's probably more important than marksmanship.

Scoped hunting rifle for survival? You think that millions of people can make a living from hunting a few deer? They'll become extinct in days.
Oh, that's going to be for self-protection? I doubt that anyone needs a long-range weapon for self-defense.

I have a book When There Is No Doctor. It's for living in 3rd world countries, but guess what? Yeah. You might need that.
Some survivalists go as far as having their appendixes and tonsils removed proactively. That's kind of expensive; if I could afford that, I'd probably get a "vacation home" instead.

umm I dissagree.
A large open Area Like the Desert long range ability trumps what the other options are. If you can pull off one Shot and wound or kill approaching hostiles you will most likely keep your location hidden, provided you took time to think about your Egress and ability to stay in one place for a long time. 99% of the folks you'll be going up against will be amateurs, practically their first time with a weapon. their marksmanship will be very poor they will be over confident and scared. just trying to figure out where the shot came from is something skilled soldiers have a hard time dealing with add in factors like adrenalin, panic and their wounded buddy Screaming like a stuck pig they will stop look for cover and begin Visually looking for you. wait them out, they will get up. then shoot the next one. If they are approaching in Vehicles you place a barrier that will make them stop. then you do the same thing, choosing to disable the vehicle should be well thought out. Do you need the Vehicle their guns? if not letting them leave? Remaining in one larger Area will be advantageous if you have what you need and there is not much reason for traffic to be going by. Being near a large resource is Risky and should only be done if absolutely necessary. After about 8-10 weeks the Masses of Minor threats will be eliminated (ie, fucktards shooting it out over ammo at wal-mart) and the Major enemy assets will have been consolidated. At that time well coordinated guerrilla attacks might be necessary to Reduce the size of large local threats; Militias, occupying forces, regular army, ect. They best would be to not attract too much attention, if you are too successful you will be deemed a threat; Special forces and Tactical assets will be deployed against you and then you're fucked.

[gyre]

If it was the '50's or 60's they may or may not have finished it, then. Arthur C. Clarke hadn't even pointed out you could place satellites in in stationary orbit for global communications yet.

I don't know if or how this might have affected the temporary repeaters.
It recently came out that Eisenhower was planning for satellites back then.
The problem was treaties that gave ownership of all airspace to countries.

When sputnik went round and then russia declared outer space to be neutral, the usa panicked.
Russia had a triumph.

Eisenhower chuckled to himself, and made plans.

As you know, russia and the usa had manned surveillance space stations during the sixties.

[H.G.Crosby]

I just finished a temp job at the Red Cross (one of their regional centers is not that far from me-- I may have to modify my zombie rise survival plan to take advantage of that). During orientation we were told that we should expect a plague in the not too distant future. I suppose that the Red Cross would know about such things. I'm kind of rooting for a zombie plague, myself, but so far no one has asked me.

yes, we know...

don't blame me, i voted for meteor impact

[aserendipity]

Well this may be my fav forum after all
coming from the long ago (studied MedicalGenetics when we did not know it ) and reading every survival piece since Skinner caught my eye
chasing Ice is what I am giving my sons as Xmas gifts
for my daughyers I am thinking bungie cords

[Ugly Dougly]

All righty Sarge!

umm I dissagree.
A large open Area Like the Desert long range ability trumps what the other options are. If you can pull off one Shot and wound or kill approaching hostiles you will most likely keep your location hidden, provided you took time to think about your Egress and ability to stay in one place for a long time. 99% of the folks you'll be going up against will be amateurs, practically their first time with a weapon. their marksmanship will be very poor they will be over confident and scared. just trying to figure out where the shot came from is something skilled soldiers have a hard time dealing with add in factors like adrenalin, panic and their wounded buddy Screaming like a stuck pig they will stop look for cover and begin Visually looking for you. wait them out, they will get up. then shoot the next one. If they are approaching in Vehicles you place a barrier that will make them stop. then you do the same thing, choosing to disable the vehicle should be well thought out. Do you need the Vehicle their guns? if not letting them leave? Remaining in one larger Area will be advantageous if you have what you need and there is not much reason for traffic to be going by. Being near a large resource is Risky and should only be done if absolutely necessary. After about 8-10 weeks the Masses of Minor threats will be eliminated (ie, fucktards shooting it out over ammo at wal-mart) and the Major enemy assets will have been consolidated. At that time well coordinated guerrilla attacks might be necessary to Reduce the size of large local threats; Militias, occupying forces, regular army, ect. They best would be to not attract too much attention, if you are too successful you will be deemed a threat; Special forces and Tactical assets will be deployed against you and then you're fucked.

[BAS]

If it was the '50's or 60's they may or may not have finished it, then. Arthur C. Clarke hadn't even pointed out you could place satellites in in stationary orbit for global communications yet.

I don't know if or how this might have affected the temporary repeaters.
It recently came out that Eisenhower was planning for satellites back then.
The problem was treaties that gave ownership of all airspace to countries.

When sputnik went round and then russia declared outer space to be neutral, the usa panicked.
Russia had a triumph.

Eisenhower chuckled to himself, and made plans.

As you know, russia and the usa had manned surveillance space stations during the sixties.

I was thinking of communication satellites, not surveillance satellites. Geo-stationary orbits were, apparently, a revelation. Of course, since the end of the Cold War stuff may have come out which I don't know about. Do you have a source for the manned surveillance space stations? I'm not familiar with those. That was around the time people were still planning on having the orbital missile platforms, before it was realized that developing ICBMs were a better choice for doing ourselves in.

[gyre]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/military/astrospies.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bamford

It looks like they actually launched in 1969 and later, though the programs started much earlier.
I was thinking the usa program went up, but maybe just unmanned test launch.
The russians were up there.
It was all obsoleted rapidly by unmanned tech.
The secrecy and ambition is typical of military projects of the era though.

I've met some of the astronauts that were in the program, but kept classified at the time.

[BAS]

Thanks for the links! More stuff to read... some day.

It looks like most that finally came out after I was interested in other things. I've got too many interests and too little time to keep up with any of them.

I wonder how much of today's restricting of people's rights is just Cold War era secrecy coming out into the open, with the Continuous War on Terror not proving as good a cover as the Cold War? (Could just be my tired brain...?)

Well, good night, folks. If the Apocalypse happens while I am asleep, don't bother to wake me. I should figure it out soon enough on my own.

[gyre]

A partial answer to that question is in Bamford's books.
Important, and I doubt you'll be bored.

The docko is available from netflix and runs on pbs.
Astrospies

[BAS]

Which book? It looks like he wrote several.

Thanks.

[Simon of the Playa]

bad kitteh.