Suicidal Tendencies

[TomServo]

Sometimes situations get soo bad, that your worst experiences seem trivial. Why suffer for someone elses "caring", when theyve done nothing for you? It's not cowardice, very few have the balls to pull it off.

That said, it's not the answer!! The light eventually turns green. You just have to have the patience.

[jkisha]

That said, it's not the answer!! The light eventually turns green. You just have to have the patience.

That just isn't true; for some, the light never turns green.

[maryanimal]

I am bipolar and thanks to the patience and love of my family and friends, I am alive and happy and healthy. Bless you maryanimal for being a support to this person. You will never know what a difference I am sure you make in her life. Having said that though, being a support for someone like this is also a strain on your own health. Give of yourself but only what you can spare and try not to make her problems your problems. There is only so much you can do.

I have literally been on every single bipolar med except two. I have had life-threatenng side-effects on almost all of them. I am currently living unmedicated, and have been for almost 6 years. It is very hard but it can be done. If your friend is truly against meds tell her you'll help her do it without meds. It is rigorous though. You must regiment everything in your life. You MUST have a regular schedule that you follow like a religion. You must have a great support network to catch you when you fall.

I highly recommend Mary Ellen Copeland's "Living with Depression and Manic Depression", it is a workbook for bipolar disorder. See link.

http://www.mentalhealthrecovery.com/

I am here for you to talk or ask questions btw. PM me any time.

Thanks Jax. I'm a Bipolar II. I'm fortunate to have a less severe case of Bipolar. I take my meds everyday. I don't feel I couldmanage very well without my meds. When I wasn't properly diagnose and not on medication, my life was a horrible mess, I'm very glad you can live without yours and it sounds like you're doing great.

I'll have to check that book out!

[goathead]

I have stayed out of this as long as i can

It is Not about [b]YOU.[/b]

It is about THEIR PAIN.

IT SUCKS

Most of us can not even IMAGINE the PAIN they feel.

Given the choice of a life fucked up on drugs? NEVER Feeling RIGHT?

Given the choice of a life on pain killers for myself or DEATH, SEE YA, I am out of here..... IT"S MY LIFE ITS MY CHOISE.

Imagimarary, temporary THEY LIVE IT

Who in the fucK are YOU to say they should not end their pain?

Its sad, IT REALLY SUCKS for us who are left behind.

I wish them the PEACE they where unable to find HERE.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THOSE LEFT BEHIND.

But then again most of us are Normal, unable to relate to the never ending pain

Please do not take this as an endorsement for the end.
Pain sucks.
Parents should never have to bury their kids..

In the END it is MY CHOICE, RESPECT IT.

Shed a tear for a friend gone.
But know they are at peace, something they didn't know HERE.

I wish them PEACE.





.

[Sail Man]

GH, yes. It is their choice.

And yes, it is often about unrelenting pain, whether it be physical or emotional.

I have experienced both that made suicide a viable option. Yet I have overcame the urges.

When they are gone, the pain leaves them, but it finds another host, usually someone who was very close as I suspect may be the case with you.

No other 911 call I respond to elicits such a wide range of emotions then suicide does.

As is apparent here. And it is better to get them out, then to keep them in.

[jkisha]

I have stayed out of this as long as i can

It is Not about [b]YOU.[/b]

It is about THEIR PAIN.

IT SUCKS

Most of us can not even IMAGINE the PAIN they feel.

Given the choice of a life fucked up on drugs? NEVER Feeling RIGHT?

Given the choice of a life on pain killers for myself or DEATH, SEE YA, I am out of here..... IT"S MY LIFE ITS MY CHOISE.

Imagimarary, temporary THEY LIVE IT

Who in the fucK are YOU to say they should not end their pain?

Its sad, IT REALLY SUCKS for us who are left behind.

I wish them the PEACE they where unable to find HERE.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THOSE LEFT BEHIND.

But then again most of us are Normal, unable to relate to the never ending pain

Please do not take this as an endorsement for the end.
Pain sucks.
Parents should never have to bury their kids..

In the END it is MY CHOICE, RESPECT IT.

Shed a tear for a friend gone.
But know they are at peace, something they didn't know HERE.

I wish them PEACE.





.

Bravo! I really like you Goathead.

[delle]

Shed a tear for a friend gone.
But know they are at peace, something they didn't know HERE.

I wish them PEACE.

I agree in principle. I even agree for certain friends and family who have chosen this path.

I could never agree for my child.

The pain would be too intense. The constant insistance that I could have done something more to change the outcome. I can't imagine that ever getting better. Ever.

[jkisha]

I would posit that most of the pain and grief caused by suicide is culturally induced. Some Eskimo tribes set grandma out on the ice to feed the polar bears when she no longer has teeth to chew the leather and cannot contribute to the survival of the tribe. They believe that her feeding the polar bears is the best way for her to help extend the well being of the family, as the young will then hunt the polar bear and assure survival.

That is only one of hundreds of more positive cultural views towards life and death than we are held emotional prisoners to here in the United States.

Not to mention, that if you are a Christian, shouldn't you be looking forward to life in heaven with god and no cares or worries? But yet suicide is a sin...the good old catch 22. Can't have people committing suicide to get to heaven and start enjoying the afterlife early now, can we.

You can do only so much to "help", then you just have to let go.

Attitude is everything.

[Elliot]

Can't Sit Still, or anyone else, can you tell us more about copper and testing of hair etc? I suspect we have not investigated this in my case -- completely debilitating depression. (Clinical Depression or Major Depressive Disorder.)

Also, in my case we know it is largely hereditary. My brother and I both got it from our mother. Might this fact suggest a specific course of treatment?

(I get only bottom-of-the-barrel treatment because I have no medical insurance and live in a tiny town.)

[Foxfur]

Can't Sit Still, or anyone else, can you tell us more about copper and testing of hair etc? I suspect we have not investigated this in my case -- completely debilitating depression. (Clinical Depression or Major Depressive Disorder.)

Also, in my case we know it is largely hereditary. My brother and I both got it from our mother. Might this fact suggest a specific course of treatment?

(I get only bottom-of-the-barrel treatment because I have no medical insurance and live in a tiny town.)

Hi Elliot!
You described my depression to a tee. It was absolutely crippling, affected every area of my life from as far back as I can remember. Like 5yrs old and thinking about jumping off high places.

Last year I finally found out I'm bipolar!
It seems lots of gifted, talented, and creative individuals suffer from it. I guess it's a matter of nothing comes without a price.
Within the very first week of medication (lamotrigine) it was like waking up to a new life.
I cannot adequately explain it.

This book saved my life:
The Bipolar Handbook: Real-Life Questions with Up-to-Date Answers by Wes Burgess
There's a DSM-IV like checklist in it that I just kept checking of boxes on, one after another and wishing I'd found it decades sooner.

If I hand't figured it out and got help I probably would not be burning this year.
I'd probably have just stayed withdrawn and holed up in the fox den.

I like to say, now that I've got the right meds, that when I do get depressed anymore, it is the HAPPIEST depression I've ever known because sometimes it used to get so bad the crushing despair would literally ground me for days, weeks.

I hope you can find answers & solutions to your depression Elliot.
You are such a talented and creative individual, I feel awful that you have to endure major depression. Resolution can empower you to go beyond anything you have ever dreamed of!

I was hesitant to post about this but now feel really good about it.
I hope it can help you as well as anybody else who suffers in slience.

BTW, I noticed you were based in T-City last year. I hope to meet you there this year. That'd be really great!

Ff

PS: My twin brother has it, biological father had it, and his three sons, my half-brothers, have it. My biological mom has it too. Definately hereditary it seems. Only me and my twin have actually sought help for it.

[Foxfur]

Please please please buy, borrow, or steal that book.
That goes for anyone who's dealing with depression and anxiety.
I have bought and given 12 copies to friends, relatives, and even two strangers (who are now good friends ).
If you can't find one folks, PM me and I would be very glad to send you one no charge, no strings.
There's hope even in complete darkness!

Ff

[wedeliver]

I have stayed out of this as long as i can
It is Not about [b]YOU.[/b]
It is about THEIR PAIN.
IT SUCKS
Most of us can not even IMAGINE the PAIN they feel.
Given the choice of a life fucked up on drugs? NEVER Feeling RIGHT?
Given the choice of a life on pain killers for myself or DEATH, SEE YA, I am out of here..... IT"S MY LIFE ITS MY CHOISE.
Imagimarary, temporary THEY LIVE IT
Who in the fucK are YOU to say they should not end their pain?
Its sad, IT REALLY SUCKS for us who are left behind.
I wish them the PEACE they where unable to find HERE.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THOSE LEFT BEHIND.
But then again most of us are Normal, unable to relate to the never ending pain
Please do not take this as an endorsement for the end.
Pain sucks.
Parents should never have to bury their kids..
In the END it is MY CHOICE, RESPECT IT.
Shed a tear for a friend gone.
But know they are at peace, something they didn't know HERE.
I wish them PEACE.
.

(edited above for space)
Ok, I hear ya, and what you say is right on but, with the greatest respect, in the spirt of this conversation a little more reality.

FUCK YOU, YOU SELFISH SON OF A BITCH, TAKING THE FUCKING EASY WAY OUT. YOU KNOW YOU ARE NOT ALONE ON THIS PLANET, THERE ARE OTHERS THAT YOUR ACT WILL CRIPPLE FOR THE REST OF THEIR FUCKED UP LIVES..

I understand, as well as I can, your pain, pleae let us work on it together, I love you. If after we have tried, really really tried, if you still feel the same way......... Honestly, I think I hold a little anger to that guy who hung himself .. at our own who has made this choice. If only, if only, if only, if only....

Ok, the above was a example, not meant as an attack on goaty

[Foxfur]

I have stayed out of this as long as i can
It is Not about [b]YOU.[/b]
It is about THEIR PAIN.
IT SUCKS
Most of us can not even IMAGINE the PAIN they feel.
Given the choice of a life fucked up on drugs? NEVER Feeling RIGHT?
Given the choice of a life on pain killers for myself or DEATH, SEE YA, I am out of here..... IT"S MY LIFE ITS MY CHOISE.
Imagimarary, temporary THEY LIVE IT
Who in the fucK are YOU to say they should not end their pain?
Its sad, IT REALLY SUCKS for us who are left behind.
I wish them the PEACE they where unable to find HERE.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THOSE LEFT BEHIND.
But then again most of us are Normal, unable to relate to the never ending pain
Please do not take this as an endorsement for the end.
Pain sucks.
Parents should never have to bury their kids..
In the END it is MY CHOICE, RESPECT IT.
Shed a tear for a friend gone.
But know they are at peace, something they didn't know HERE.
I wish them PEACE.
.

(edited above for space)
Ok, I hear ya, and what you say is right on but, with the greatest respect, in the spirt of this conversation a little more reality.

FUCK YOU, YOU SELFISH SON OF A BITCH, TAKING THE FUCKING EASY WAY OUT. YOU KNOW YOU ARE NOT ALONE ON THIS PLANET, THERE ARE OTHERS THAT YOUR ACT WILL CRIPPLE FOR THE REST OF THEIR FUCKED UP LIVES..

I understand, as well as I can, your pain, pleae let us work on it together, I love you. If after we have tried, really really tried, if you still feel the same way......... Honestly, I think I hold a little anger to that guy who hung himself .. at our own who has made this choice. If only, if only, if only, if only....

Ok, the above was a example, not meant as an attack on goaty

+10

JK, Goathead, Love ya guys but just can't agree completely. I guess I can in the abstract but not in fact. Does that make sense?

Ff

[goathead]

Ok, I hear ya, and what you say is right on but, with the greatest respect, in the spirt of this conversation a little more reality.

FUCK YOU, YOU SELFISH SON OF A BITCH, TAKING THE FUCKING EASY WAY OUT. YOU KNOW YOU ARE NOT ALONE ON THIS PLANET, THERE ARE OTHERS THAT YOUR ACT WILL CRIPPLE FOR THE REST OF THEIR FUCKED UP LIVES..

I understand, as well as I can, your pain, pleae let us work on it together, I love you. If after we have tried, really really tried, if you still feel the same way......... Honestly, I think I hold a little anger to that guy who hung himself .. at our own who has made this choice. If only, if only, if only, if only....

Ok, the above was a example, not meant as an attack on goaty

See thats the thing the, if only's. Why get mad at them? Taking the easy way out? Don't see anything easy about taking your own life. I use to ask the questions, get mad, and everything else, sometimes there are no answers. If you keep the anger who is being the selfish one, refusing to let go? Sometimes there is no help. Some stories don't have a happy ending.

[Elliot]

Foxfur, thanks. Creativity -- yes could be a connection, since my mother was an actress and her father a painter and sculptor. And yes, when I function properly, I build some cool stuff.

I have not yet camped with Terminal City, but I have a standing invitation. And the piano in Kantina Apokiliptika last year was mine.

I may indeed have a touch of bi-polar, and Lamotrigine has been suggested. Wonder what it costs? I'm on Lithium instead, plus four anti-depressants -- all of which does not seem to help much. Still looking for the "silver bullet". I'll look for that book now. Thanks again.

[jkisha]

+10

JK, Goathead, Love ya guys but just can't agree completely. I guess I can in the abstract but not in fact. Does that make sense?

Ff

I lost my partner of 10 years to suicide...after his forth or fifth attempt, he finally succeeded. I was devastated at the time, but in retrospect, it was the best thing that could have happened for both of us. He would have continued to be unhappy with his life and I would have made my life miserable worrying and trying to help. He obviously didn't want to be helped...at least didn't want help staying alive.

I now joke with friends that ask why, saying I drove him to it. Only those that know me think it's funny.

[graidawg]

my father committed suicide it haunts me to this day that i didnt call him when the urge struck 10 minutes before he did it
however i still consider it as an option


deleted because i'm not brave enough to speak my mind on this

[jkisha]

my father committed suicide it haunts me to this day that i didnt call him when the urge struck 10 minutes before he did it
however i still consider it as an option


deleted because i'm not brave enough to speak my mind on this

You didn't delete it quickly enough.

You need to learn to embrace failure, learn from it, allow it to make you stronger. That is the secret to finding success. You only need to succeed one more time than you fail to be successful! That can't happen if you allow yourself to be held a prisoner of your fears.

[goathead]

deleted because i'm not brave enough to speak my mind on this

Tough subject, wandering into the places we don't want to go to.
Kind of nice to have a place to go to where you can though, if you need to.

[Elliot]

Most important thread ever?

[graidawg]

this is a horrible subject for me, i remember how my fathers sucide fucking destroyed me. it seperated my whole family i still to this day will not talk to my brother or mother
It affects me to this day - if i you where hear now i would talk about it if you wanted to hear, but i will not put it up on a public forum its simply the most horrid thing i have ever encountered.
its difficult for me to find the right words (as jk may have read) but death for me is becoming an increasingly logical choice - or an emotional one i find very little that keeps me here mostly the worry that the few people that do care would be hurt by my choice.

[Elliot]

...the worry that the few people that do care would be hurt by my choice.

Seems to me, Graidawg, those people are the most important element of our lives. I've had exactly the same thoughts, and I think we do right in staying alive with our friends. I have a small circle of very good friends, and they are priceless. And of course, I have all these silly burner friends, and finally I now have the folks on this thread!

Just ordered the Bi-Polar Handbook from Amazon.

I'm thinking.... Quite a few of us have inherited the tendency, but I bet modern society is triggering it in many of us -- stress, pollution, radio waves, unnatural foods, etc.

[maryanimal]

Can't Sit Still, or anyone else, can you tell us more about copper and testing of hair etc? I suspect we have not investigated this in my case -- completely debilitating depression. (Clinical Depression or Major Depressive Disorder.)

Also, in my case we know it is largely hereditary. My brother and I both got it from our mother. Might this fact suggest a specific course of treatment?

(I get only bottom-of-the-barrel treatment because I have no medical insurance and live in a tiny town.)

Elliot, Bipolar is heredity also. It runs in my family. Haad my mom been diagnosed at an early age, her life may have been more calm and less frantic and angry at the atrocities of the world she thought was aimed at her.

I have 2 first cousins, and 2 second cousins that have Bipolar plus a few other labels and have been through hell with meds and finding the right cocktail to help level them. Tehy still have ups and downs but they're doing well. My cousin Marcia has had on helluva time in her young life. But she's doing great now. She has her own website and it's doing great!

And I know about bottom of the barrel treatment. I'm ineligable for state run medical, and I have a psychiatrist who want $250 when I have to see him to make sure I can still get my med. He'll go over things with me, maybe make a few changes and hits me with a bill. I cannot afford to go to him and he knows it. Ah, well, maybe when I move, get a job and receive some med insurance, things will be different.

I hope things get better at your end too! *hugs*

[ygmir]

Don't wait. Don't ever fucking wait.



The last way you want to hold a loved one is as a pallbearer.

Ff

I've made to many of these............

[graidawg]

elliot thank you for listening, i think i should avoid this thread it seems to make me want reach for the razor.
MA and elliot it must be aweful to not be able to call a dr anytime and get treatment without thinking of the cost - something we in the uk dont consider

thank you for letting me vent- ;ife gets difficult without someone to talk to about it, and worse (for me) without someone venting back

[Elliot]

Mary, I question whether I'm bipolar at all, but there is no question about depression. But... maybe I simply would not realize it. I'd love to solve this with Lamotrigine, and get rid of the other five.

Hey, come to think of it.... Good news! I'm sleeping well these days. Very important! Trazodone in the evening helps with that, for me.

[jkisha]

Most cities have suicide hotlines with trained personnel that are their to listen. It's an option that should not be overlooked.

[Elliot]

Graidawg, well, yes, retire from this thread if you feel that is best. (Click on "Stop watching this thread" at the bottom left.) But remember that we are real live friends here at the other end of the computer -- not machines, not salesmen -- real people. (Me, straight male, 59, single, 200 pounds, photo in avatar.) We also have the option of sending Private Messages, for less public talks.

[Foxfur]

Elliot - I'm so glad to hear that you've ordered the book. Dr. Burgess himself is bipolar. That, to me, spoke volumes.
And yeah, the ONLY thing that kept me from a early exit was my friends and family and not wanting them to have to go through the grief, self incrimination, and a life of thinking 'If I had just...'.
I agree societal influences and factors are key in the expression (bringing out of latent slumber), exacerbation, and perpetuation of many, many health issues, physical and mental.

JK - I'm very sorry for your having lost your partner in this way. I am glad that you have come to terms with it and are able to have a sense of humor about it. That's healthy, not sick

Graidawg - Oh fuck dawg, That is awful about your father. It does scar for life and i'm heartbroken for you that it has hovered over you with such tenacity. I hope we meet on the playa. If you'd like to sit and talk, I'd be a good listener as well as a shoulder to cry on. I may need your shoulder as well. I'll bring us some towels, ok?

The photo of the gravestone was my girlfriend I lost to suicide when we were just 16. She shot herself. With her fathers .45. In the chest. Through her heart. Three days before Christmas. The Christmas season gets me down still, to a point.
That will never leave me. Oh it's much easier 25 years after the fact but she crosses my mind a few times a week.
She told me on a thursday that she 'didn't feel like living anymore' and I gave the stock lines 'Things will get better' (health problems, harrassment @ work & school cause she was 4ft 7in...) and 'you don't really mean that'. On Monday I got the call.

HOWEVER...
I have no problem with "Death with Dignity". In Oregon we have legal physician assisted suicide. They prescribe a cocktail of tablets for them to take when they wish. This is allowed only after med exams and conference with the MD three times before a script is granted. It's only for terminal patients.
It is only used 5-10x each year. Many get the RX filled but choose not to use it and allow the disease to run its course.
Whenever I hear a story on the local news about how a person took their RX and die with their family and loved ones, surrounding them with love and letting the patient know it is ok to go now, I cry. Hard. But only 1-2% is sadness. To me, that is a beautiful way to withdraw from a body that has turned on itself. It really is.

Damnit, cant type an cry at the same time
ff

[graidawg]

elliot, foxfur thank you for listening if/when we meet on the playa i will probably to hyper to talk about this and tomorow i wont want to its a very painful subject for me, but thank you i beleive you both undestand

my brain just seizes lately when itry to find hows to say things but thank you i hope you get the message.