Guns, Love Em or Leave Em

[gyre]

Is anyone interested in what I dig up on the CZ58?

I've been looking into them a bit since the last ones from century sold out.

Is anyone set up to turn a barrel, at the rear?

[cowboyangel]

We've already figured out how to make magazine plugs that look like barrels.

saw the videos for this thing and it looked like the guy was having a hard time holding it steady...all over the place. I'll keep my 870

[gyre]

It's as short as legally allowed and light, 6.5 pounds.
I would expect it to be comparatively more difficult to handle than average.

Pretty much the same experience with the handguns I carry, at 8 and 14 ounces.

[cowboyangel]

Yeah. Sometimes cool design can be a hindrance as in this shotgun's case. It's lightness and short length make controlling recoil highly problematic even for an experienced shooter. I haven't tried a pistol grip yet for my 870...anybody here ?

[ygmir]

yup, shot an 870 with a pistol grip, years ago.
"hip" shooting, was sort of hard to control.....and, I have a pretty heavy arm, as far as mass added to the gun.
I think a lot of shotgun mistakes, are made in using the highest powered shells you can get. At least, in the first few rounds.
A low base, #6-#9 shot, will do tons of damage within 30' (typical longest shot in home defense).
easy to control, lots of pellets, wide pattern, and, not likely to penetrate a wall and threaten others in adjacent rooms or houses.

[Ugly Dougly]

Had a Mooseberg, too. When I shot from the hip, I tended to shoot high, if I didn't consciously make my barrel level.

I got an old picture of me with my shotgun.... hang on...

[Ugly Dougly]

Here ya go.

[gyre]

yup, shot an 870 with a pistol grip, years ago.
"hip" shooting, was sort of hard to control.....and, I have a pretty heavy arm, as far as mass added to the gun.
I think a lot of shotgun mistakes, are made in using the highest powered shells you can get. At least, in the first few rounds.
A low base, #6-#9 shot, will do tons of damage within 30' (typical longest shot in home defense).
easy to control, lots of pellets, wide pattern, and, not likely to penetrate a wall and threaten others in adjacent rooms or houses.

Most people disagree, but a friend of mine says bird shot is the thing to use.
He's ex-spook.

I would think the lighter guns are too hard to shoot well with, but the guy I train with out shoots everyone with one.

He says shooting from the hip is only a practice thing, that you can do better than with sighting and faster, given enough practice.
Lots of practice.

How good can you get with a handgun?
Repeated 80 yard kill shots with a 45 have been done, and verified.

[cowboyangel]

yup, shot an 870 with a pistol grip, years ago.
"hip" shooting, was sort of hard to control.....and, I have a pretty heavy arm, as far as mass added to the gun.
I think a lot of shotgun mistakes, are made in using the highest powered shells you can get. At least, in the first few rounds.
A low base, #6-#9 shot, will do tons of damage within 30' (typical longest shot in home defense).
easy to control, lots of pellets, wide pattern, and, not likely to penetrate a wall and threaten others in adjacent rooms or houses.

Most people disagree, but a friend of mine says bird shot is the thing to use.
He's ex-spook.

I would think the lighter guns are too hard to shoot well with, but the guy I train with out shoots everyone with one.

He says shooting from the hip is only a practice thing, that you can do better than with sighting and faster, given enough practice.
Lots of practice.

How good can you get with a handgun?
Repeated 80 yard kill shots with a 45 have been done, and verified.

Bird Shot? Ask Harry Whittington, the guy Dick Chenney shot in the face with bird shot.......

[cowboyangel]

God bless the family of this great park ranger Mom. Her death is reason enough to carry in the wilderness...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/01/ranger-killed-in-mount-rainier-national-park-shooting/

At around 10:20 a.m. Sunday, another park service employee had tried to stop a man in his vehicle. He didn't stop, so Anderson set up a road block with her vehicle in the middle of the road, said park spokeswoman Lee Taylor. The man pulled up to Anderson about 11 a.m., jumped out, fired and ran off, she said.

There were no witnesses to the shooting, but the shooter was identified as a male, Taylor told Fox News.

"We're searching for someone that does not want to be found," Taylor said. "And who has a weapon, and is willing to use it."

Troyer also said it appeared there were still visitors hiking on the mountain who could not be reached and were not aware of what was going on.

"We do have a very hot and dangerous situation," he said.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/01/ra ... z1iGSUTIHE

[ygmir]

God bless the family of this great park ranger Mom. Her death is reason enough to carry in the wilderness...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/01/ranger-killed-in-mount-rainier-national-park-shooting/

At around 10:20 a.m. Sunday, another park service employee had tried to stop a man in his vehicle. He didn't stop, so Anderson set up a road block with her vehicle in the middle of the road, said park spokeswoman Lee Taylor. The man pulled up to Anderson about 11 a.m., jumped out, fired and ran off, she said.

There were no witnesses to the shooting, but the shooter was identified as a male, Taylor told Fox News.

"We're searching for someone that does not want to be found," Taylor said. "And who has a weapon, and is willing to use it."

Troyer also said it appeared there were still visitors hiking on the mountain who could not be reached and were not aware of what was going on.

"We do have a very hot and dangerous situation," he said.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/01/ra ... z1iGSUTIHE

yup, so very true, CA.
I'm surprised, though, if she was not "packing", in that, I thought all rangers were now sworn peace officers, and required to carry.
But, damn the luck, and for her family, best wishes...........

[gyre]

From what I've heard, in this case it sounds like having a gun wouldn't have helped her.

There are many different jobs with parks.
I don't think they all carry.


There has already been a case of someone with a permit defending their daughter from a bear in a park.
Probably many others we haven't heard of.

[cowboyangel]

Had this guy made it to other campers, there's no doubt in my mind that he would have used violence to get things, hence the need to continue the carry law in National Parks. I've backpacked the Big Bend, which is a major human transport region for cartel drug smuggling. It is damn necessary to carry there.

The other thing that concerns me is the "true" cost of war. We've wasted over a trillion dollars on the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions, which were illegal according to international law, and what have they really accomplished? Even if you don't agree with that, there are the hidden costs associated with mentally and physically wounded returning vets and the fallout of their problems as seen in this latest episode. One of my clients is a psychologist who's going to Hawaii to counsel young men suffering from PTSD. She says the Army has so many of these guys they're putting out calls for more psych help. Look at the cost of the wars in those terms and I think you'd see a very different picture....

[gyre]

I think he could have used a coat.

[jella]

God bless the fact I am a good shot god help I never have to prove it !

[gyre]

Please don't be complacent with that, Jella, as important as it is.

It's very different making life and death decisions loaded on adrenaline, and usually surprized, then trying to hold a gun steady.
You can't be too prepared.

I thought my friend's drawing practice was a bit obsessive, at least, until it probably saved his life.
It certainly kept him from having to shoot someone.

The hardest thing is that all normal people don't really want to believe there are people among us, with no more feeling for others than a bug.
They wear humanity like a sheepskin.
And laugh at how easy it is to fool everyone.

Even those who have dealt with such creatures find it hard to believe they exist, but it must not be forgotten.

They have more in common with a cat hunting a mouse, than anyone we can understand.

We can only be prepared.

[cowboyangel]

Okla. Woman Shoots, Kills Intruder: 911 Operators Say It's Okay to Shoot
By KEVIN DOLAK and RYAN OWENS | Good Morning America – 7 hours ago

http://gma.yahoo.com/okla-woman-shoots-kills-intruder-911-operators-okay-091106413.html

A young Oklahoma mother shot and killed an intruder to protect her 3-month-old baby on New Year's Eve, less than a week after the baby's father died of cancer.

Sarah McKinley says that a week earlier a man named Justin Martin dropped by on the day of her husband's funeral, claiming that he was a neighbor who wanted to say hello. The 18-year-old Oklahoma City area woman did not let him into her home that day.

On New Year's Eve Martin returned with another man, Dustin Stewart, and this time was armed with a 12-inch hunting knife. The two soon began trying to break into McKinley's home.

As one of the men was going from door to door outside her home trying to gain entry, McKinley called 911 and grabbed her 12-gauge shotgun.

McKinley told ABC News Oklahoma City affiliate KOCO that she quickly got her 12 gauge, went into her bedroom and got a pistol, put the bottle in the baby's mouth and called 911.

"I've got two guns in my hand -- is it okay to shoot him if he comes in this door?" the young mother asked the 911 dispatcher. "I'm here by myself with my infant baby, can I please get a dispatcher out here immediately?"

The 911 dispatcher confirmed with McKinley that the doors to her home were locked as she asked again if it was okay to shoot the intruder if he were to come through her door.

"I can't tell you that you can do that but you do what you have to do to protect your baby," the dispatcher told her. McKinley was on the phone with 911 for a total of 21 minutes.

When Martin kicked in the door and came after her with the knife, the teen mom shot and killed the 24-year-old. Police are calling the shooting justified.

"You're allowed to shoot an unauthorized person that is in your home. The law provides you the remedy, and sanctions the use of deadly force," Det. Dan Huff of the Blanchard police said.

Stewart soon turned himself in to police.

McKinley said that she was at home alone with her newborn that night because her husband just died of cancer on Christmas Day.

"I wouldn't have done it, but it was my son," McKinley told ABC News Oklahoma City affiliate KOCO. "It's not an easy decision to make, but it was either going to be him or my son. And it wasn't going to be my son. There's nothing more dangerous than a woman with a child."

[Sail Man]

14 yr old boy shoots intruder

[cowboyangel]

A 90-year-old Greenbrae [California] man and a burglary suspect were hospitalized with gunshot wounds Wednesday after a confrontation at the victim's home, police said.

Jay Leone, the homeowner at 300 Via La Cumbre, was shot once in the face, while the alleged burglar, Samuel Joseph Cutrufelli, was shot three times in the body, said Twin Cities police Sgt. Michael Norton.

Both men were in stable condition at Marin General Hospital on Wednesday afternoon, Norton said.

Cutrufelli, a 30-year-old resident of Novato and Petaluma, was in police custody on suspicion of attempted murder and burglary.

The shooting occurred at about 10:45 a.m. at Leone's two-story home in the hills near Highway 101. Police said Cutrufelli entered Leone's home, detained him at gunpoint and searched the residence for property.

Leone, a former member of the Marin County sheriff's air patrol, was able to get one of several guns in his home and shot the suspect. The suspect shot Leone and drove off.

Leone called 911 from his house, and Cutrufelli called 911 from his car, which he stopped on Tiburon Boulevard in San Rafael. Cutrufelli said he had shot himself and needed medical attention, Norton said.

One of Leone's tenants, Sara Navon, was home at the time and heard shouting and gunfire.

"First I heard a bang, and then I thought maybe something fell," said Navon, who rents a downstairs unit. "Then I heard something much more serious, like a bang-bang."

She said she went upstairs and saw a chair pushed up against the interior doorknob of the front door. She said she ran back downstairs and outside to call police.

Twin Cities police, the California Highway Patrol and the sheriff's department responded to investigate the shooting and block traffic. A police helicopter circled the neighborhood after the incident to look for any other potential suspects.

In 2001, Cutrufelli was charged with attempted murder after stabbing a Novato pedestrian who complained about nearly being hit in a crosswalk.

Authorities said Cutrufelli, who had been drinking at a downtown bar, got out of the car, smashed a bottle over the 22-year-old victim's head, and used a folding knife to stab him four times and cut tendons in his right hand. Cutrufelli left the victim in the street to crawl away for help.

He pleaded guilty to assault with a deadly weapon and received a six-year prison sentence.

"Normal people don't do what I did to him," Cutrufelli said during a tearful sentencing hearing.

Contact Gary Klien via email at gklien@marinij.com






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In my turf damn it.......

[gyre]

Bumper sticker

Caution, driver only carries $20 worth of ammunition.

[gyre]

Finished assembling the ak receiver last night.
Only needs some fine tuning and heat treatment now.
It's a rifle!

Anyone interested in CZ58 details?
I've learned a few things.

Does anyone know where I can get some solid carbide threading tools?

[gyre]

It turns out that carbide taps aren't appropriate for titanium, unless someone else has other ideas?

Kennemetal advises using very sharp high speed steel taps for titanium.
These would also be suitable for everything else too, esp stainless or aluminum.

14 x 1 reverse isn't a standard stock item, but making these is not difficult, so they don't consider it an exotic job, so it isn't costly considering the materials.
If anyone wants a really good general tap, this is their best effort using cobalt alloy steel with an exceptionally sharp edge, which is the key.

[BlackRockCityPimp]

It turns out that carbide taps aren't appropriate for titanium, unless someone else has other ideas?

Kennemetal advises using very sharp high speed steel taps for titanium.
These would also be suitable for everything else too, esp stainless or aluminum.

14 x 1 reverse isn't a standard stock item, but making these is not difficult, so they don't consider it an exotic job, so it isn't costly considering the materials.
If anyone wants a really good general tap, this is their best effort using cobalt alloy steel with an exceptionally sharp edge, which is the key.

I had to tap something once, horrible exp using a tap and die set. Make sure you get the good stuff when it comes to tools.

Im thinkin of getting some revolvers for me n the girls. I have researched and come to the conclusion that we will be getting Rugers or Smiths. Does anyone have any recomends or exp? So far we are leaning heavily toward the Ruger 101.

[EspressoDude]

tapping: secure fixturing to hold the workpiece and tap in alignment. slow steady feed. Titanium is somewhat like copper and aluminum as it wants to 'grab' the tap. lube helps a lot. I have drilled and tapped titanium using hand tools 1/4", 5/16" and 6mm thread. slow careful steady feed..

14mm.....spark plugs?

[gyre]

14 x 1 reverse.
Muzzle device

[gyre]

And if anyone has any 1 1 1 trichloroethane to spare, a little would be very useful.

[gyre]

Tap quality is very crucial for anything that matters.
Check sizing.

I wrote in great detail about finishing the AK receiver, but like all my long posts, it disappeared.

The hardest part is the front trunnion.
Since I have an early kit with the chrome barrel fitted to the trunnion, I didn't want to headspace it again.

The rivets have to be cleared from blind holes.
Then we threaded with a standard starting tap, slightly grinding the tip for clearance.
This is done slowly, cutting through the case hardening.
Breaking a tap here is big trouble.
After starting the threads, we finished with a Union-Butterfield bottoming tap.
This should be a fresh tap, for each rifle.
The tap changes with wear.

We used the best tap magic we could get.
There is more than one grade.

The custom tap I mentioned would be kennemetal or Greenfield's top line in solid cobalt alloy, with an especially sharp edge for metal that galls.
It's suitable for anything lesser too.
The estimate is $10-$100, only as a price range from engineering.
Seems custom taps are easier than custom anything else.
Quantity helps if anyone wants one.
i haven't checked other sources.
There are overpriced sellers of this size tap, but nowhere near this quality range.
The standard size is 14 x 2.

We had to do a lot of filing and adjustment around the magazine well, and the ejector weld points.
The headspacing is tight enough to jam with debris ( we didn't clean it first, it's an ak).
Clearing by cycling, it cycles tightly and reliably now.
The magazine fits tight, with just enough play to make it easy to use, and allow it to run dirty.

[gyre]

I had to tap something once, horrible exp using a tap and die set. Make sure you get the good stuff when it comes to tools.

Im thinkin of getting some revolvers for me n the girls. I have researched and come to the conclusion that we will be getting Rugers or Smiths. Does anyone have any recomends or exp? So far we are leaning heavily toward the Ruger 101.

I would lean toward Taurus revolvers myself.

There are a lot of good choices though.

[cowboyangel]

" it was a naive mistake made by Marines who believed the SS symbol was meant to represent sniper scouts and never intended to associate themselves with a racist organization, said Maj. Gabrielle Chapin, a spokeswoman at Camp Pendleton.

The Marines in the image will not be disciplined because investigators determined there was no malicious intent, Chapin said."

Bullshit Marines........Pure rotten, sick, bullshit and we don't buy it. My Dad and his generation fought those Nazi fuckers you stupid idiots.

[cowboyangel]

Maybe these fucking idiot marines should watch "Saving Private Ryan"?