Who here actually has an extra ticket?

[gibson_]

I keep hearing that there are going to be all of these tickets available in STEP. Is *anybody* here sitting on extra tickets that they're going to put into that program?

Because all I'm hearing is people who _don't_ have extra tickets.

Now looking over the AZ Burners mailing list, they've been in contact with some of the other larger groups, percentages coming in are pretty frighteningly dismal.

Like...10% [at max] of people who applied got tickets.

Unless the lottery was somehow biased _against_ them, it scares me to think that this is indicative of the ticket "success rate" overall. Are there only going to be about 10,000 people at BRC this year, then, or...? WTF?

[Hotel balmoral]

Yes I have two extra tickets and will be selling them via the STEP program at face value
No I will not sell them to you sorry just want to be fair

[lemur]

i have all of the extra tickets!!!

29,291 of them!!

[Mosquitopilate]

Thank you for putting tickets into STEP Hotel balmoral and I hope I am lucky to get one ticket in the STEP Program

[Corbin]

all my friends who are dubstep DJs have extra tickets... but they are saving them for their bros..

[Mosquitopilate]

what is really going to get bad is people like myself who sleep eat and shit burningman 24 hours a day are going to get left out in the cold and that is not cool
and I am not just speaking for myself there are alot of really hurt people who are ready to go now but are coming to the conclusion that they are not going anywhere.I can tell you right now not being sure that I will get a ticket is very hard on me,but I know it might get worse if STEP does not work

[junglesmacks]

what is really going to get bad is people like myself who sleep eat and shit burningman 24 hours a day are going to get left out in the cold and that is not cool

..because that makes you more deserving of a ticket than the next person or burgin? It may suck/blow/be pretty lame and/or saddening, but I don't know if we can invoke a "cool" factor here.

[mshaman]

I've been searching for tickets with the Denver burners and have not found any that are up for sale even to other local members of the scene, much less a single one that is going into STEP. STEP is a fantasy.

[ygmir]

Yes I have two extra tickets and will be selling them via the STEP program at face value
No I will not sell them to you sorry just want to be fair

Thank you, for that.
Good on ya, Mate!!

[hotmess]

Yes I have two extra tickets and will be selling them via the STEP program at face value
No I will not sell them to you sorry just want to be fair

Thanks balmoral. Hopefully there are more people in the community in a similar situation that you are in and will provide STEP with tickets so they can be distributed to those in need. (I am one of them)

I appreciate the words of encouragement. I guess we just have to wait and see.

[trilobyte]

@gibson_ - while the results in your sampling may be as low as 10%, overall it's been higher than that. Make no mistake, STEP won't be a magical solution that makes everything better. The ticket exchange is a tool that can help where it comes to either hoarding or people who's plans have changed and are no longer able to go (which is a sizable chunk of tickets that are re-sold every year). The assumption that all the tickets are in the hands of either scalpers or hoarders seems off, it's looking more likely that we're seeing a massive influx of new participants (much larger as a percentage of the total population than we've seen in over a decade). Just like with returning burners, though, a portion of those new people with tickets may not end up being able to go. If that happens, STEP will give them an easy way to do the right thing and get rid of their tickets at face value.

[jkisha]

@gibson_ - while the results in your sampling may be as low as 10%, overall it's been higher than that. Make no mistake, STEP won't be a magical solution that makes everything better. The ticket exchange is a tool that can help where it comes to either hoarding or people who's plans have changed and are no longer able to go (which is a sizable chunk of tickets that are re-sold every year). The assumption that all the tickets are in the hands of either scalpers or hoarders seems off, it's looking more likely that we're seeing a massive influx of new participants (much larger as a percentage of the total population than we've seen in over a decade). Just like with returning burners, though, a portion of those new people with tickets may not end up being able to go. If that happens, STEP will give them an easy way to do the right thing and get rid of their tickets at face value.

I can't help but wonder if your optimism regarding the ticket situation will ever be introduced to reality.

[trilobyte]

What optimism? I just reminded that the exchange isn't a magic solution, it's just a tool.

[hotmess]

And without tools we would have a hard time building anything (both on and off the playa). Hooooray for tools!!!

[Colonel Monk]

What optimism? I just reminded that the exchange isn't a magic solution, it's just a tool.

Right, a tool.

Yeah, if the problem really really is undersupply, there ain't gonna be a magic wand.

But again, if you make it so that the only way to transfer ownership of a ticket is via the STEP, then alot of the amateurs and opportunists are going to fold and just get their money back. If that happened even for 100 tickets it would be worth it IMO.

The pros? Yeah they are shady f**Ktards that will probably not listen to reason, and even if forced to use STEP they might do some shady deal where you have to front them cash in order to do the transfer thru STEP - but I dunno - that's so shady I don't think most people are going to put up that much cash for a promise.

The hoarders? We know they mean us no harm, just as soon as STEP is ready most will turn their tickets back in. Tell you what though, I have heard some whining about the restocking fee, and that will definitely work as a deterrent to STEP. Not saying that the hoarders won't be selling their tickets at face value to other burners, but if they won't use STEP because of a restocking fee, that hurts my chances of being in line to buy their tickets!! Don't do it Burning Man, please - just let people use the STEP for free this time.

out

[Trishntek]

What do you mean by an "extra ticket"? At the present time, my camp needs all the tickets we have even though there may not be specific names to all the tickets held. We wait, as everyone else does, to see how sales play out over the coming months. THEN, I will redistribute a certain number of tickets as needed. How many I may or may not have is not a piece of information you need to know at this time. I'm sure many others feel the same way.

Suffice it to know there are several good intended people holding more tickets than they personally need. They are waiting to see who among their camp NEEDS A TICKET after the sales are exhausted. "Extra tickets" would indicate tickets without a purpose. Our purpose is to assure as many of our camp are able to attend. If everyone who wants to attend gets tickets on their own, then we will have "extra tickets" in June or July. Until then they are our back up plan.

[JCarter]

i have all of the extra tickets!!!

29,291 of them!!

So, I am guessing you won't be scalping them.

Will you doing your own Indy 500? Or perhaps a reality TV version of "Saw"? Winner gets tickets? It would not be scalping, technically.

[Herring]

I really do think the "extra" tickets will start popping up in the summer when the reality of spending $100s on food and equipment and getting a week+ off work to travel to the desert and back sinks in and those that bought tickets "just in case" will start selling. Now, whether they sell through step for face value or through Craigslist at a premium because they have physical tickets in hand and in this economy who can't use an extra $100 will be another issue entirely. Selling low tier $240 tickets for top tier $390 prices is going to be mighty tempting. Either way I don't believe the entire 50% of first timers that purchased tickets will actually use them.

[Savannah]

What do you mean by an "extra ticket"? At the present time, my camp needs all the tickets we have even though there may not be specific names to all the tickets held. We wait, as everyone else does, to see how sales play out over the coming months. THEN, I will redistribute a certain number of tickets as needed. How many I may or may not have is not a piece of information you need to know at this time. I'm sure many others feel the same way.

Suffice it to know there are several good intended people holding more tickets than they personally need. They are waiting to see who among their camp NEEDS A TICKET after the sales are exhausted. "Extra tickets" would indicate tickets without a purpose. Our purpose is to assure as many of our camp are able to attend. If everyone who wants to attend gets tickets on their own, then we will have "extra tickets" in June or July. Until then they are our back up plan.

I see this happening. Of the 3 people I know with "extras" (bought fairly, btw, one apiece) . . .

* Person A: Face value, to a friend of theirs. (I won't ask to which actual friend 'til @ the Burn.)
* Person B: going to a family member, but their vacation time is uncertain. If family cancels, a specific friend is "in line" for it.
* Person C: either gifting it or selling it at face value to a friend.

In each case, the uniting characteristics are:

1) the ticket holders are generally waiting until they see what happens with STEP and the open sale before acting, because if the people they love are successful with either of these methods, they've still got a spare--and it will go further.

2) They are not about to admit that they have a spare, here or in most other places, because the ticket-holder wants to make the decision without the input of a crowd.

I really do think the "extra" tickets will start popping up in the summer when the reality of spending $100s on food and equipment and getting a week+ off work to travel to the desert and back sinks in and those that bought tickets "just in case" will start selling. Now, whether they sell through step for face value or through Craigslist at a premium because they have physical tickets in hand and in this economy who can't use an extra $100 will be another issue entirely. Selling low tier $240 tickets for top tier $390 prices is going to be mighty tempting. Either way I don't believe the entire 50% of first timers that purchased tickets will actually use them.

I'm guessing yes; just as a theory. A person's virgin burn is the most intimidating and hard to coordinate. June has a critical mass of drop-outs every year; it's when we start hearing about ePlayans who are stuck with RV deposits because all their friends ditched.

[vargaso]

I really do think the "extra" tickets will start popping up in the summer when the reality of spending $100s on food and equipment and getting a week+ off work to travel to the desert and back sinks in and those that bought tickets "just in case" will start selling. Now, whether they sell through step for face value or through Craigslist at a premium because they have physical tickets in hand and in this economy who can't use an extra $100 will be another issue entirely. Selling low tier $240 tickets for top tier $390 prices is going to be mighty tempting. Either way I don't believe the entire 50% of first timers that purchased tickets will actually use them.

I'm hoping there's a way for the BMORG to drop the "restocking fee" associated with STEP, because that coupled with the relative hassle of selling it back to the BMORG via STEP vs. slapping a quick and free ad up on Craigslist (even if the seller intends to sell at face-value) does not bode well for STEP.

[tamarakay]

What restocking fee? Have details been announced?

[unjonharley]

I had to sell my ticket last year.. For face$ on Craig's.. It ended up a large pain in the ass.. I had people on me like sink on shit.. Then the hassle of pay pal and 14 bucks mailing.. Much better off with STEP.. Borg has not said a damn thing about restock fee.. Rest your neck and get a ticket..

[vargaso]

OK, I apologize, I could have sworn there was something about a restocking fee.

UPDATE: OK I wasn't crazy, it was in the ticket confirmation verbiage:

Should you find yourself with more tickets than you or your friends and family actually need, we ask that you PLEASE use Burning Man’s Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP) to offer them back into the community at face value (minus restocking fees). Watch for an email before the end of February with details about how you can participate in this safe, hassle-free program. If you need to update your email address before then, please go to http://tickets2.burningman.com/contact and select “update email address” from the support menu.

At any rate, I hope they've reconsidered.

[bradtem]

I must admit I am curious as to how many "extra" tickets there are.

Because it appears that lottery success was around 1 out of 3, it will be a rare or very greedy camp that has extra tickets. That's because if you needed 10 and asked for 20 you would get 7 on average, and only a few would get more than 10. The larger your camp, the less and less likely it is that you got much more than 1/3 of what you asked for, so to have extras you would have had to ask for 3 times what you needed or more. I don't know how most camps strategized but I would have imagined most would have gone for 2x, only a few for 3x, very few for 4x or more.

Smaller groupings are more likely to have extras. Smaller groupings, however, are more likely to have a ready supply of buddies very keen for tickets who would get first crack.

Single burners who had a friend or family member or two are most likely to have gotten an extra. If you wanted one and had 3 people ask for one, you probably got one on average but a fair number of those folks got 2 or even 3. They might be ready to sell to strangers.

In all my many years of Burning Man, I've seen many people with extra tickets, but it's been fairly rare they went to a stranger in the ebay or craigslist or eplaya way. Almost always people reached out first to campmates and friends, and then to their own social networks, and then to the social networks of campmates to find a buyer. Especially at face value. (eBay seemed more oriented at people seeking market value.) This year I suspect it will be stronger. Who won't reach out to their social network first -- and it's very easy to reach your social network these days.

Oddly, people think this is fair and right. That _who_ you know should be the determining factor in whether you get a ticket, or more to the point, whether you are connected to somebody who entered the lottery multiple times. If you step back and look at it from a community perspective, that seems like an odd set of people to reward with tickets.

[hotmess]

Oddly, people think this is fair and right. That _who_ you know should be the determining factor in whether you get a ticket, or more to the point, whether you are connected to somebody who entered the lottery multiple times. If you step back and look at it from a community perspective, that seems like an odd set of people to reward with tickets.

You hit on the nose my friend. Strange how now the people who are the gate keepers of tickets are those that played the system rather then trusting the community to aquire the amount of tickets they actually needed. I feel a bit like a fool as I really thought everyone who wanted to go this early on in the game would get a ticket if they entered into the lottery. I was going to have my boyfriend enter for the two of us as well but didn't end up asking him as I 1) didn't want him to have the large expense on his credit card and 2) I really believed that I would get the 2 tickets we needed.

Now all we can do is wait and see what happens. Hope to see you back home come August.

[cooked 2242]

I really do think the "extra" tickets will start popping up in the summer when the reality of spending $100s on food and equipment and getting a week+ off work to travel to the desert and back sinks in and those that bought tickets "just in case" will start selling. Now, whether they sell through step for face value or through Craigslist at a premium because they have physical tickets in hand and in this economy who can't use an extra $100 will be another issue entirely. Selling low tier $240 tickets for top tier $390 prices is going to be mighty tempting. Either way I don't believe the entire 50% of first timers that purchased tickets will actually use them.

I'm hoping there's a way for the BMORG to drop the "restocking fee" associated with STEP, because that coupled with the relative hassle of selling it back to the BMORG via STEP vs. slapping a quick and free ad up on Craigslist (even if the seller intends to sell at face-value) does not bode well for STEP.

Agreed! Eliminating the restock fees is one of the minimum, easy things Borg can do to step up and take responsibility for the mess. Any way of creating incentives for people who are on the fence to turn in tickets to Step sooner would help. This could include cold hard cash above original cost, it could include a future place in line for tickets, it could include a certificate of appreciation signed by Trilo. All rewards could be greater if tickets are turned in sooner.

Another option is to push the date that tickets are mailed out as late as possible. This could be the tipping point for the pain-in-the-ass factor and push many to just get rid of the risk (even a few scalped tickets)

These are all uncomfortable things to do - but it's time to get dirty and do something.

[theCryptofishist]

...a certificate of appreciation signed by Trilo.

Dang. Now you got me wondering if he's got some fancy steampunk handwriting...

[MiguelMenendez]

I can't wait for my "I need a ticket to Burning Man" shirt gets here. I am really thinking that my best chance for a ticket is going to be a random encounter...

[Saguache]

Oddly, people think this is fair and right. That _who_ you know should be the determining factor in whether you get a ticket, or more to the point, whether you are connected to somebody who entered the lottery multiple times. If you step back and look at it from a community perspective, that seems like an odd set of people to reward with tickets.

I'm associated with three camps which are more loosely connected and thus organized than some camps which conversely tend to be tightly integrated and organized. Each of these camps volunteers or gifts significantly to the event in their own way. Because these folks are loosely organized members usually only requested the number of tickes they need to participate; in other words there are no "extras" and somewhere (depending on camp) between 80 to 90% didn't get the tickets they asked for.

Discussion within these communities (two of three exist outside BM) has started to focus on what folks are going to do instead. The third will probably turn out a few people, but wil be so over allocated that their service appears to me jeopardized because of lack of volunteers who can attend.

When will the BORG recognize that the event is more than a collection of semi insular sound wall collectives looking to leverage the event to their advantage? Don't misunderstand me, I love the party, but there are a lot of people who support the city and making it work the whole week long. From what I can see its volunteers like this who were at a disadvantage from the start of the lottery, they didn't game the system because they intended to support it from the beginning.

[Colonel Monk]

I really do think the "extra" tickets will start popping up in the summer when the reality of spending $100s on food and equipment and getting a week+ off work to travel to the desert and back sinks in and those that bought tickets "just in case" will start selling. Now, whether they sell through step for face value or through Craigslist at a premium because they have physical tickets in hand and in this economy who can't use an extra $100 will be another issue entirely. Selling low tier $240 tickets for top tier $390 prices is going to be mighty tempting. Either way I don't believe the entire 50% of first timers that purchased tickets will actually use them.

Howdy Herring

Love the name! yes!

Yeah lets hope - to be honest, the actual figure for many burners I'm sure is in the $1000s. People who haven't been to BRC or don't have close friends have probably not figured this out yet.

Yeah, not this OR the commitment required to comfortably (if there is such a thing) survive the desert for a week.

I really really hope that the borg will forget about this restocking bullshit fee, because it will only lead to folks using other means to sell their tickets.

Given what I saw in ebay last year there are more OPPORTUNISTS that I thought possible - "burners" who insisted they were selling above face value to fund their camp and didn't see how that hurts anyone.....