Shut the FUCK up about virgins.

[gibson_]

Stop with this "burnier than thou" nonsense. "Oh NOES, MY ticket went to a damned, VIRGIN!".

Do you realize what an asshole some of you are being right now? What kind of an introduction to the community is this? Knock it off.

It's okay to be sad, I sure as hell am, but to try and bring the people who are about to be shown something wonderful down is not cool. No the event isn't going to suck because you're not going to be there. The event likely kicked many asses before you even knew that it existed, it will continue to kick asses after you leave.

Virgins, if anybody tries to tell you that you're not welcome here, tell them to fuck off, that they've forgotten the 10 principles, and they should probably take a year off.

I don't remember what thread I read it in, but the gist of it was:

"I was sad about not getting to go until I found out that my ticket went to a virgin. Then I was happy."

Be more like that person you bitter old fucks.

[randomgirl7]

Total agree.. I was sad when the virgins started saying they didn't feel welcomed anymore. I think if you are a pretentious burner you aren't really a burner. I had a few last year run around acting like everyone was a virgin but them. I had burners stop and explain rules to me. Rules I haven't even broken. I couldn't stand all the burner snobs last year. Just because it's Saturday and I'm on the playa, doesn't make me a weekender or a virgin. I came with early entrance

I understand how a lot of us are sad to not have tickets -- but remember how much the burn meant to you that first year -- it'll be the same for them!

[5280MeV]

These burgins are wayyyy burnier than me. I sure as hell didn't get my tickets in January - by experienced friend had to prod me into it in late March. I was still scrambling to make last minute purchases in August.

I keep hearing things like "I read the survival guide 10 times" ... "Why is everyone telling me not to volunteer my first year?"... "What do you think of my costume / art project / camp / performance idea?" ... "I have been wanting to go to burning man for five years and am finally able to make it."

These people are SERIOUS... and it is only FEBRUARY.

[remi]

My name is Remi, and I approve this thread!

[AntiM]

I've always been a proponent of the burgins, we need them. I was once a burgin!

However, I am sad that there's the possibility of some of my dear friends not attending. That said, they all have more dear friends than we can shake a collective stick at, and I know all of us will keep eagle eyes out for tickets for them.

[skyhawkecks]

Being a birgin last year made me appreciate how lucky I was to be there so much more.

[Froves]

i posted in an earlier thread in response to this. Since i was 17 years old ive been telling myself..."One day....ill be ready to go to burning man....maybe when im twenty five...yea twenty five.". im twenty three now and two years ahead of schedule. my lifelong dream is about to happen, i have been waiting for the day for soo long and now that im finally in the right place to make it someones gonna tell me that they should go instead of me because they have already been? well fuck that mess. ive hugged trees too guys, i not only leave no trace but i LIVE no trace. when i go to work, i step into a fucking monster of an art car that spits blood in you face and pisses in your mouths. when i shit, its multicolored with lights exploding into the ceiling, ive seen the door, i recycle too, im kinda like you. dont step on our dreams~~~~!!!!! you were all virgins at some point

[Ruleryak]

Thanks for saying what alot of us were thinking Gibson. Burning Man wont be ruined if more virgins than vets go - it will just be different. We were all virgins once damnit!

[Savannah]

Burn all the harder, Virgins! Use all the parts of the buffalo.

Remember: ePlaya is nothing like THE playa.

Or we wouldn't go to all the trouble to get there.

[drutter]

I don't really appreciate the tone of the OP. Hard to tell people to be nice by shouting nasty curses and threats in their faces, and be taken seriously.

That said, I think us "veterans" should realize just how inexperienced at Burning we really are. I'm hoping to make this my 5th year. A veteran by any virgin's standards, as well as by my own and most of my campmates. And yet, I've had 24 days and nights in Black Rock City. Big fuckin' deal!

I also agree with the advice that ePlaya is not the playa. People are bigtime assholes here, and then become amazing human beings for 6 days in August/September every year. It's pretty sad.

[Brianna_Beauty413]

*thumbs up*

A true burner would care whether your a virgin or a veteran as much as they care if you're purple or blue.

[Brianna_Beauty413]

I don't really appreciate the tone of the OP. Hard to tell people to be nice by shouting nasty curses and threats in their faces, and be taken seriously.

That said, I think us "veterans" should realize just how inexperienced at Burning we really are. I'm hoping to make this my 5th year. A veteran by any virgin's standards, as well as by my own and most of my campmates. And yet, I've had 24 days and nights in Black Rock City. Big fuckin' deal!

I also agree with the advice that ePlaya is not the playa. People are bigtime assholes here, and then become amazing human beings for 6 days in August/September every year. It's pretty sad.

I kind of agree with this. I'm not saying everybody is an asshole but I've definitely seem some on here. They boast about being a burner and then judge and turn their nose up at people. Whatever...Just makes me feel better about myself considering that I'm loving no matter what time of the year it is!

[Foxfur]

Some of the best burners I met last year were virgins! I was a virgin last year! If it came down to me and another person who had the right attitude, mindset, and gear, she or he would have my ticket. It's THAT important to me that everyone who really belongs there should go.

VIVA LA VIRGINS!

[fishinthedesert311]

I just want to share my story about being a virgin last year.

I am really not quite sure how I would have it made through the last couple of months without Burning Man. In July I was diagnosed with a cancerous tumor called a desmoid. This type of tumor doesn't actually metastasize, but it can attack surrounding body parts, which mine did. My doctor likes to call it cancer with a little "c." These tumors also have a very high recurrence rate. As soon as I found out what kind of tumor I had (a process which took 3 weeks I might add), I pushed it to the back of my mind. This was very difficult considering that it was on my right hip, making mobility very difficult, and was extremely painful and stiff. As I was already planning on going to the Burn last year, I postponed my surgery until the week after the Burn. I was in complete denial about the whole thing, but Burning Man made me confront my fears and come to peace with what was happening with my body and the fact that I thought for about a month that I might actually die. The night of the Burn my camp and I got there early to get a seat in the first row. Since you obviously aren't allowed to stand, I had to sit for a couple of hours on my hip. My lack of mobility wouldn't allow me to sit cross-legged, so I sat on my knees. This became extremely painful after a while. I started to have more and more anxiety about my tumor and the surgery that I was going into the next week. As the man started to burn, I broke down. I sobbed for twenty minutes until the man fell. Afterwards, I felt relieved. At was as if my catharsis had been absorbed by the man itself and I should have no more fear and I should accept that my tumor was part of me and had shaped, and will continue to shape, who I am. After the burn, I went to the temple and meditated and offered a prayer. I thanked the Burning Man gods for allowing me to experience what I had experienced and pledged to let Burning Man shine through me throughout the year so people in the "real world" could experience what I had just experienced. The night of the temple burn I cried again, this time not in fear, but in acceptance.

The next week I had my surgery. It was far worse than my doctor had anticipated. Since I had my MRI 3 months before, my tumor had doubled in size. It weighed 5 lbs and was roughly the size of a loaf of bread. My doctor broke 2 scalpels getting it out of my hip/butt/thigh, and I have a foot long scar running down the outside of my right leg and hip as a constant reminder. He told me it was the toughest surgery he has performed in over 5 years. It had spread to my gluteus midius, gluteus minius and my lateralis (a muscle that runs on the outside of your thigh.) He had to remove 1/2 of each of the gluteus muscles and 3/4 of my lateralis. It had also wrapped around my sciatic nerve, and so part of it remains in my body. This was the worst part of all. If the tumor grows or comes back, I will have to go through radiation therapy, which will put me into early menopause. (I'm 24.) Had I not been to Burning Man the week before and accepted all that was happening to me, I would have had a much harder time dealing with all of this the past couple of months. As it is, I am so incredibly grateful and happy to be healthy and alive, and that all of those around me are too. This is the spirit of Burning Man. I have collected "memorabilia"- a picture of my tumor, my MRI, hospital bracelets from my 3 day stay, pictures that my friends and I colored and drew during my time there, cards and the like. I have put them all in a box, and next year on my first day at home, I will put that box in the temple and it will burn. My year will have come full circle and I couldn't have done it without the community of burners, those that I met and didn't meet, and the playa.

The moral of the story is this-don't just think that because someone is a "virgin" that they are there for a party or don't truly understand what "leave no trace" means. Don't judge a book by its cover. I am excited to return to the playa this year to meet all of the virgins and to share my story with them. It is a magical place, don't let your hubris change what it means.

[gibson_]

Didn't mean to offend you, drutter, it's just getting frustrating seeing some of the posts where people want to exclude anybody who is new.

I remember when the lottery was first announced, people were talking like those who have been going for x number of years should get preferential treatment, or should be excluded from the having to use the lottery system.

That's just sad, and angering, to see.

[Froves]

I don't really appreciate the tone of the OP. Hard to tell people to be nice by shouting nasty curses and threats in their faces, and be taken seriously.

That said, I think us "veterans" should realize just how inexperienced at Burning we really are. I'm hoping to make this my 5th year. A veteran by any virgin's standards, as well as by my own and most of my campmates. And yet, I've had 24 days and nights in Black Rock City. Big fuckin' deal!

I also agree with the advice that ePlaya is not the playa. People are bigtime assholes here, and then become amazing human beings for 6 days in August/September every year. It's pretty sad.

i knew my post didnt sound right, I took too long to type i think. I didnt mean to offend anyone with language or "threats" The name of the thread does have the word "fuck" in it. and my vehice really does spit stuff and do all sorts of terrible disturbing things, (its boderline uncomfortable ) haha please understand if you heard me actually saying any of this it would make much more sense. i sometimes emphasize the importance of points aggressively. ha wow that hurt my brain a little,
and

[Savannah]

fishinthedesert311, that's an amazing story.

Welcome to ePlaya!

[MyDearFriend]

Some of the best burners I met last year were virgins! I was a virgin last year! If it came down to me and another person who had the right attitude, mindset, and gear, she or he would have my ticket. It's THAT important to me that everyone who really belongs there should go.

VIVA LA VIRGINS!

Dude, you are the best. "Attitude, mindset, and gear," that's what counts.

All y'all arguing folks, please remember to have fun.

[graidawg]

of course I care if people are purple or blue. blue is so passe'


yea sure we were all burgins once, i would like to be a burgin again. in fact i think until you have been 3 or 4 times you are basically still a birgin

[theCryptofishist]

Everybody knows all the real burners burnt out by 2005.

[Ugly Dougly]

Didn't mean to offend you, drutter, it's just getting frustrating seeing some of the posts where people want to exclude anybody who is new.

I remember when the lottery was first announced, people were talking like those who have been going for x number of years should get preferential treatment, or should be excluded from the having to use the lottery system.

That's just sad, and angering, to see.

It sounds like you're lashing out at all the vets.

Your avatar looks sad. Why don't you go ahead and exercise your radical self-reliance and CHOOSE to be happy?
Another shitty day in paradise?

[gibson_]

Dougly, I'm not upset at the vets, just frustrated/embarrassed by some of the attitudes in the last few months.

And I'm not sad in my avatar, haha, I'm just tired

[MedullaB]

Since a virgin's burn is almost always their best burn (It was always better last year...) - by default they should have more right to be there! Provided they're prepared... and have a love of bacon...

[BBadger]

Whatever fate that has caused such "vets" to lose their tickets to "virgins" has done the playa a favor. Good riddance. May they never return.

[drutter]

Nah I wasn't offended, just saying it's weird to tell people to "be nice" via screaming swear words in their face. Our Dad used to threaten to beat us whenever we hit each other because "violence is bad". Rather conflicting message! LOL

I just want to share my story about being a virgin last year.

Loved it! Thanks for your story. I'm glad you'll be home again this year. You aren't sick, you're alive, same as everybody else. We all have unique challenges, apparently cancer with a little c is yours (currently, anyhow). All the best.

[zer0mass]

Last year was my first year and this year I hope to not only go back but take my (soon to be fiancées, but don't tell her that) girlfriend. We didn't get our tickets in the lottery and while it does frustrate me I know there are going to be other chances to get them, and if we can't then we will have a nice little vacation somewhere else.

I do want to say this, if I can't go I hope that my ticket goes to a virgin burner so that they can experience all of the magic and wonder that I did last year. While those of us that would be or will be returning home for the nth time are very important it is in fact those who have never been before that will keep this party going long after the rest of us have gone. I have seen other groups wither and die because they became exclusionary and chased away new people because the old hats were afraid of how things might change if new people were welcomed. We can either welcome all of these new people or let Burning Man die.
Burning Man is in many ways all about change, to ourselves, to our communities, to the world around us and to the event itself. I don’t think the lottery was the best choice however there is president for it at other large events and it has worked before, just not for us. I think that there is going to need to be a lot of thought about how to do ticket sales differently next year starting very soon but I like the idea of STEP and I look forward to what it might be.

So long live the virgin burners, may they show us what the future can hold!

[VultureChow]

So I've stayed away the past two days for the most part, struggling with my guilt for having already gotten a ticket in the presale and being a virgin, but the more I think about it, the more I'm confused by veterans who seem to think that there will be a sudden and intense influx of virgins this year.

If anything, it should be harder for a virgin to get a ticket under this new system. Last minute decisions to head out to the desert are no more. No gate tickets, and an essentially sold out event by April. Furthermore, much of the ticket acquisition seems to be headed towards the secondary market. In this market, a virgin has a significantly lower chance of scoring one. Most people seem to be aiming toward distributing extras through already established friends and camps. A virgin, especially someone in a similar situation as me, who has no burner friends, is not privy to these social relationships that can move tickets to others already in the community.

A virgin has to have decided by say March that they will attend, have the money ready to go and be lucky to get lottery or secondary sale tickets. If anything, this should be a great year for great virgins. Those who hove looked at the event for years and decided early on to make the leap this year. Those who have just discovered it, but make an early commitment with plenty of time to prepare.

Also, this ticket process has spurred me on even harder on the project I am working on. I will earn my ticket and place in the community.

[danibel]

This!

I just want to share my story about being a virgin last year.

I am really not quite sure how I would have it made through the last couple of months without Burning Man. In July I was diagnosed with a cancerous tumor called a desmoid. This type of tumor doesn't actually metastasize, but it can attack surrounding body parts, which mine did. My doctor likes to call it cancer with a little "c." These tumors also have a very high recurrence rate. As soon as I found out what kind of tumor I had (a process which took 3 weeks I might add), I pushed it to the back of my mind. This was very difficult considering that it was on my right hip, making mobility very difficult, and was extremely painful and stiff. As I was already planning on going to the Burn last year, I postponed my surgery until the week after the Burn. I was in complete denial about the whole thing, but Burning Man made me confront my fears and come to peace with what was happening with my body and the fact that I thought for about a month that I might actually die. The night of the Burn my camp and I got there early to get a seat in the first row. Since you obviously aren't allowed to stand, I had to sit for a couple of hours on my hip. My lack of mobility wouldn't allow me to sit cross-legged, so I sat on my knees. This became extremely painful after a while. I started to have more and more anxiety about my tumor and the surgery that I was going into the next week. As the man started to burn, I broke down. I sobbed for twenty minutes until the man fell. Afterwards, I felt relieved. At was as if my catharsis had been absorbed by the man itself and I should have no more fear and I should accept that my tumor was part of me and had shaped, and will continue to shape, who I am. After the burn, I went to the temple and meditated and offered a prayer. I thanked the Burning Man gods for allowing me to experience what I had experienced and pledged to let Burning Man shine through me throughout the year so people in the "real world" could experience what I had just experienced. The night of the temple burn I cried again, this time not in fear, but in acceptance.

The next week I had my surgery. It was far worse than my doctor had anticipated. Since I had my MRI 3 months before, my tumor had doubled in size. It weighed 5 lbs and was roughly the size of a loaf of bread. My doctor broke 2 scalpels getting it out of my hip/butt/thigh, and I have a foot long scar running down the outside of my right leg and hip as a constant reminder. He told me it was the toughest surgery he has performed in over 5 years. It had spread to my gluteus midius, gluteus minius and my lateralis (a muscle that runs on the outside of your thigh.) He had to remove 1/2 of each of the gluteus muscles and 3/4 of my lateralis. It had also wrapped around my sciatic nerve, and so part of it remains in my body. This was the worst part of all. If the tumor grows or comes back, I will have to go through radiation therapy, which will put me into early menopause. (I'm 24.) Had I not been to Burning Man the week before and accepted all that was happening to me, I would have had a much harder time dealing with all of this the past couple of months. As it is, I am so incredibly grateful and happy to be healthy and alive, and that all of those around me are too. This is the spirit of Burning Man. I have collected "memorabilia"- a picture of my tumor, my MRI, hospital bracelets from my 3 day stay, pictures that my friends and I colored and drew during my time there, cards and the like. I have put them all in a box, and next year on my first day at home, I will put that box in the temple and it will burn. My year will have come full circle and I couldn't have done it without the community of burners, those that I met and didn't meet, and the playa.

The moral of the story is this-don't just think that because someone is a "virgin" that they are there for a party or don't truly understand what "leave no trace" means. Don't judge a book by its cover. I am excited to return to the playa this year to meet all of the virgins and to share my story with them. It is a magical place, don't let your hubris change what it means.

Thank you for sharing your story. It was lovely and magnificent. Dusty hugs!

[Savannah]

So I've stayed away the past two days for the most part, struggling with my guilt for having already gotten a ticket in the presale and being a virgin, but the more I think about it, the more I'm confused by veterans who seem to think that there will be a sudden and intense influx of virgins this year.

If anything, it should be harder for a virgin to get a ticket under this new system. Last minute decisions to head out to the desert are no more. No gate tickets, and an essentially sold out event by April. Furthermore, much of the ticket acquisition seems to be headed towards the secondary market. In this market, a virgin has a significantly lower chance of scoring one. Most people seem to be aiming toward distributing extras through already established friends and camps. A virgin, especially someone in a similar situation as me, who has no burner friends, is not privy to these social relationships that can move tickets to others already in the community.

This is true--at least for me. If I came up without a ticket, there are a couple of people I dare to think might try to help me, or at least mention my name in conversation if they heard of a ticket coming up for sale somewhere. Not always true for the new blood.

(Note to all ticket searchers: even virgins without any Burner friends should tell friends they're looking, just as you would tell your friends if you were looking for a job. It doesn't hurt to let people know you're looking.)

A virgin has to have decided by say March that they will attend, have the money ready to go and be lucky to get lottery or secondary sale tickets. If anything, this should be a great year for great virgins. Those who hove looked at the event for years and decided early on to make the leap this year. Those who have just discovered it, but make an early commitment with plenty of time to prepare.

Also, this ticket process has spurred me on even harder on the project I am working on. I will earn my ticket and place in the community.

Fantastic.

[Meyoukey]

I've been wanting to go since 99 but haven't been healthy enough to try until this year. I registered for two tickets at the highest tier for me and my best friend who has never gone before (she did not register) and neither of us got tickets. I'm still going to try to get tickets, but will not both scalped ones.