Official "Not Awarded Tix" Thread

[huskyfan]

now what?

do we throw in the towel and forget the whole BM thing and move on?

do we go for scalper tickets and let the planning begin?

do we wait and hope for the STEP and plan later?

I really wish BMorg would let us know where the tickets went and "what is to be done?"

[ZaphodBurner]

How does 110,000 people come and leave for a concert in Mexico City in one day? A lot of them come on the public transportation.

Aren't there train tracks running along the playa just south of the city? Arriving at Black Rock City in some neo-victorian steampunk conveyance just might make my life complete.

You're my fucking HERO!

[Spritle712]

I'm not going to say how I feel about this lottery because I think BMO has been bashed enough. They made a mistake. They are only human and we all do it. The saying goes "To err is human, to forgive is divine".

The real test of BMO's character will be how they handle this mistake.

Are they finally going to start listening and taking onboard ideas from the community?

Or are they going to stick with the BMO party lines, continuing to shut themselves off from us, and further alienating themselves from the community?

100% agreement. I think they're response to the petition was a positive. I'm hoping they follow that plan or come up with an even better one. They've asked for two weeks and they should have it. No one in my camp is going to buy scalped tickets until then.

[Bull Bunny]

I've spent the last couple of days appealing to the corporate offices of Stubhub on behalf of concerned Burners everywhere. What follows are the exact emails I sent and Stubhub's responses. To be honest, I didn't expect much but wanted to get it on the record. What to expect from a duck but a quack?
You're going to love this. Let the firestorm begin!

My first note:
Just a heads-up. The name of your company and the Burning Man tickets
you're selling is being listed all over the internet causing incredible
bad will with 100s of thousands of consumers. The few buck bucks you
make from offering these tickets couldn't possibly make up for all the
adverse publicity. Here's an incredible opportunity for Stubhub to
garner some amazing publicity. Pull all listings for Burning Man
tickets, publize you decision to the media and get instant good will
from the public. Take this seriously, it's a great opportunity that will
cost you very little compared to the vast publicity. If you're the first
to do this it will make history, and show your company has a conscience

The response:
Thank you for contacting StubHub.
Unlike other ticket websites, StubHub doesn?t own the tickets listed on
our site. When you buy tickets on StubHub, you?re buying from other fans
that have chosen to sell their tickets and they determine the price.

We encourage sellers to list tickets at fair market value, which is
determined by supply and demand. However, sellers are free to ask any
price for their tickets and the face value printed on the tickets may
differ from the listed price. If the fans refuse to pay the prices that
the seller list, eventually the cost of the tickets will lower. We do
not regulate who list tickets for an event that we have on our site.
Hence we will not pull an event and remove ticket listings.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any other questions. Thanks
for choosing StubHub!

Sincerely,

Lorenzo
StubHub Customer Service
Weekdays: 5:00AM -- 9:00PM (PST)
Weekends: 6:00AM -- 7:00PM (PST)
customerservice@stubhub.com
www.StubHub.com

My response:
To whom it may concern,
While I understand that Stubhub doesn't own the Burning Man tickets it lists on it's service, your company nonetheless is aiding speculators/scalpers (not fans) in committing a great wrong and making a profit thereby. When hundreds of thousands of consumers consistently list your company as a chief offender in debates over this issue it IS hurting your reputation and costing you business, 1000s of times more than any profit you gain from fees on prospective sales. Beware, flipping this group of people the corporate "Bird" isn't wise.
Burning Man is a much-beloved and vital event to most of the 50,000 people who regularly attend. This year the scalping issue is central to a major debate on countless websites and print media regarding a ticketing system instituted by event organizers so flawed as to encourage scalpers to flood the system with fraudulent orders and deny longtime participants their ability to attend. The anger and tenacity of these loyal attendees is both justified and focused on your company. In short, this isn't just another instance of "Market Value" or "What the market will bear," or even a matter of consumer freedom to sell their property as they choose. It's an instance of blatant FRAUD. Please understand, no attendee of Burning Man would EVER use your service to resell a ticket. A program for the return of unneeded tickets is already in place with festival organizers. You are representing fraud, plain and simple.
I recently purchased 2 tickets to a Bruce Springsteen concert at more than 3 times the listed ticket price and didn't have much of a problem with that. However, Burning Man isn't just some one-night rock concert I'm attending for a nice evening out. It's a spiritual week-long event that is central to my entire year. Gathering with 1000s of friends of like mind, over 2/3 of whom will be unable to attend this year because of this debacle. The event's entire infrastructure will be lost and the experience ruined. We're talking about over 30,000 very pissed off, very vocal consumers who spit on the ground every time your company is mentioned.
Scalping tickets won't hurt the attendance or quality of a Springsteen concert, however this situation WILL, in effect, kill this event. You, and not the individual speculators, will be blamed and suffer the loss of business and reputation. The firestorm is only beginning, as the year progress' it will most certainly be a major news story in all media, thus impacting your company with people who don't even know what Burning Man is. Even selling tickets to an upcoming Nazi rally wouldn't produce the kind of fallout that scalping tickets to Burning Man will generate, especially since you DO have the choice not to list them.
Even though other ticket agencies also list these fraudulent tickets, your company is, the biggest, most visible, and the most reviled. You can turn this around in a major way by simply not listing these tickets, publicizing your decision and encouraging others in your business to do the same. If you decide to do this soon it will appear that your company actually does have a corporate conscience and isn't just knuckling under to consumer pressure. Even a first-year Business Major could spot the enormous downside and potential benefits in this situation. It makes sense to do this now rather than wait for the "Boycott Stubhub" signs to start appearing across the world.
Your position that the fans and NOT your company are selling these tickets wouldn't convince even a single outraged attendee of your company's innocence and would, no doubt inflame the matter further than it already is, since it is well known that you make a profit on every ticket sold through your service. The getaway driver goes to jail just the same as the actual robbers.
Thank you for your prompt response to my inquiry, however I was hoping for something more considered than the standard company line. This is an .
extremely serious matter and deserves more consideration than that

Their response:
Thank you for contacting StubHub. I am sorry that you do not approve
of how we allow sellers to list tickets. Many of the sellers of these
tickets, are past and former attendees to the event. I can certainly
pass along your feed back to management. However as stated we do not
have any plan to disallow sellers from selling for this event. We have
successfully allowed sellers to sell extra tickets for this event for
several years without issue. We certainly plan on allowing sellers to
process orders in the future. However I will pass the info on to our
management team.


If you have any other questions or concerns please feel free to
contact us at 866-788-2482 or email us back directly. We are happy to
help.

My final note:
Thanks Lorenzo.
In past years, as I recall there were several scalper's listing their speculations on Stubhub. Their numbers were insignificant compared to total sales through the organizers. This year it's drastically different. In past years no one cared about the few unscrupulous scalpers. And, so there's no confusion, none of the listings for multiple tickets now on your service (8 or 6) are past participants. By their very numbers they admit that they have scammed the system with multiple credit cards. The very foundation for Burning Man's philosophy, has always been against retail exploitation. In past years there was no structure for returning/refunding unused tickets so resellers were the only option. This year for the first time there is a face-value site available to easy redistribution. All this is obvious to even the most casual observer. The organizers are trying to remedy the situation they created, but I fear they won't have much success since these scalpers have the support of companies like the one you represent. Well, if your higher-ups don't get the message from my previous correspondence, or just plain don't give a shit, no further reasoning on my part will persuade them. Perhaps the firestorm will. The record of my emails and your responses will certainly make for interesting discourse on the 30 or more websites that will see them today. Please be sure that those responsible for corporate policy get to share the concerns of this worldwide community, and if by some "slip-up" they remain ignorant of the gravity of this situation, I'm afraid your job won't be worth a scalped ticket.
Yours truly, Michael R. Oddo

[theCryptofishist]

You might as well assume that Elvis returned to earth and stole all the tickets. It's about as ridiculous.

Yes that is ridiculous - everyone knows that it was Jim Morrison who stole all the tickets.

No. It was someone more San Francisco...Snakefinger.

[theCryptofishist]

I really wish BMorg would let us know where the tickets went and "what is to be done?"

And I wish they'd catch those elves. However, some people tell me that that's impossible for them. Liars.

[Sugahoneyicetea]

I just wish they'd get on this STEP program and the sale after that. I'm so tired of waiting...
there's so much to plan for and so much to do but we dont even know if we'll make it.
cant they just start already i mean they've planned and planned and nothing is changing, cant we just get through this ticket shit and get on with BM?
JUST SELL US SOME TICKETS DAMN!
enough with the "plan A failed, now plan B."
just sell the F***in' tickets and lets go!

[dunkk]

Why you and your friends didn't get tickets.

http://alchangplus.blogspot.com/2012/02 ... l?spref=fb

[Mosquitopilate]

I have said it before I have already packed and ready to go for 2 1/2 months now I have not gone for two years and have been saving money through some hard times, Well I am ready to go back driving across the country pittsburgh2playa. I registerd in the first 5 minutes on jan 9th at 3:06 I was done, needed 1 ticket. Well lets just say no ticket for me, I did not think to ask everyone in my family to do what I did (390$) tier so I can get a ticket, so I going to use this board to beg yes beg to remember me during the STEP option I will help in anyway that is needed and I have said this before you will drink for free all week just tell what you drink and I will bring it to you. Anywho this has been a obsesion to me for two years to get back my wife has just about had it with hearing me talking about it but I just have a passion to be there again it is such a special place and hopefully the regulars get tix aswell but if you can fellow burners keep me in mind,thank you

[vargaso]

Well-intended but somewhat naive. For one, whatever the number of consumers who now have "bad will" towards StubHub, it's a small fraction of their user base. For another, why should Burning Man get special treatment? It's just another event, ultimately, one that I hold very dear, but I realize most of the rest of humanity does not feel the same way about. Not to mention StubHub's business model is very similar to how most of the internet operates, wherein they provide a platform for users to act upon, a la YouTube. Ill-advised actions like SOPA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act) were attempts to short-circuit this model, to the detriment of the vast majority of internet users. I feel the same away about your attempt with StubHub.

I've spent the last couple of days appealing to the corporate offices of Stubhub on behalf of concerned Burners everywhere. What follows are the exact emails I sent and Stubhub's responses. To be honest, I didn't expect much but wanted to get it on the record. What to expect from a duck but a quack?
You're going to love this. Let the firestorm begin!

My first note:
Just a heads-up. The name of your company and the Burning Man tickets
you're selling is being listed all over the internet causing incredible
bad will with 100s of thousands of consumers. The few buck bucks you
make from offering these tickets couldn't possibly make up for all the
adverse publicity. Here's an incredible opportunity for Stubhub to
garner some amazing publicity. Pull all listings for Burning Man
tickets, publize you decision to the media and get instant good will
from the public. Take this seriously, it's a great opportunity that will
cost you very little compared to the vast publicity. If you're the first
to do this it will make history, and show your company has a conscience

The response:
Thank you for contacting StubHub.
Unlike other ticket websites, StubHub doesn?t own the tickets listed on
our site. When you buy tickets on StubHub, you?re buying from other fans
that have chosen to sell their tickets and they determine the price.

We encourage sellers to list tickets at fair market value, which is
determined by supply and demand. However, sellers are free to ask any
price for their tickets and the face value printed on the tickets may
differ from the listed price. If the fans refuse to pay the prices that
the seller list, eventually the cost of the tickets will lower. We do
not regulate who list tickets for an event that we have on our site.
Hence we will not pull an event and remove ticket listings.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any other questions. Thanks
for choosing StubHub!

Sincerely,

Lorenzo
StubHub Customer Service
Weekdays: 5:00AM -- 9:00PM (PST)
Weekends: 6:00AM -- 7:00PM (PST)
customerservice@stubhub.com
http://www.StubHub.com

My response:
To whom it may concern,
While I understand that Stubhub doesn't own the Burning Man tickets it lists on it's service, your company nonetheless is aiding speculators/scalpers (not fans) in committing a great wrong and making a profit thereby. When hundreds of thousands of consumers consistently list your company as a chief offender in debates over this issue it IS hurting your reputation and costing you business, 1000s of times more than any profit you gain from fees on prospective sales. Beware, flipping this group of people the corporate "Bird" isn't wise.
Burning Man is a much-beloved and vital event to most of the 50,000 people who regularly attend. This year the scalping issue is central to a major debate on countless websites and print media regarding a ticketing system instituted by event organizers so flawed as to encourage scalpers to flood the system with fraudulent orders and deny longtime participants their ability to attend. The anger and tenacity of these loyal attendees is both justified and focused on your company. In short, this isn't just another instance of "Market Value" or "What the market will bear," or even a matter of consumer freedom to sell their property as they choose. It's an instance of blatant FRAUD. Please understand, no attendee of Burning Man would EVER use your service to resell a ticket. A program for the return of unneeded tickets is already in place with festival organizers. You are representing fraud, plain and simple.
I recently purchased 2 tickets to a Bruce Springsteen concert at more than 3 times the listed ticket price and didn't have much of a problem with that. However, Burning Man isn't just some one-night rock concert I'm attending for a nice evening out. It's a spiritual week-long event that is central to my entire year. Gathering with 1000s of friends of like mind, over 2/3 of whom will be unable to attend this year because of this debacle. The event's entire infrastructure will be lost and the experience ruined. We're talking about over 30,000 very pissed off, very vocal consumers who spit on the ground every time your company is mentioned.
Scalping tickets won't hurt the attendance or quality of a Springsteen concert, however this situation WILL, in effect, kill this event. You, and not the individual speculators, will be blamed and suffer the loss of business and reputation. The firestorm is only beginning, as the year progress' it will most certainly be a major news story in all media, thus impacting your company with people who don't even know what Burning Man is. Even selling tickets to an upcoming Nazi rally wouldn't produce the kind of fallout that scalping tickets to Burning Man will generate, especially since you DO have the choice not to list them.
Even though other ticket agencies also list these fraudulent tickets, your company is, the biggest, most visible, and the most reviled. You can turn this around in a major way by simply not listing these tickets, publicizing your decision and encouraging others in your business to do the same. If you decide to do this soon it will appear that your company actually does have a corporate conscience and isn't just knuckling under to consumer pressure. Even a first-year Business Major could spot the enormous downside and potential benefits in this situation. It makes sense to do this now rather than wait for the "Boycott Stubhub" signs to start appearing across the world.
Your position that the fans and NOT your company are selling these tickets wouldn't convince even a single outraged attendee of your company's innocence and would, no doubt inflame the matter further than it already is, since it is well known that you make a profit on every ticket sold through your service. The getaway driver goes to jail just the same as the actual robbers.
Thank you for your prompt response to my inquiry, however I was hoping for something more considered than the standard company line. This is an .
extremely serious matter and deserves more consideration than that

Their response:
Thank you for contacting StubHub. I am sorry that you do not approve
of how we allow sellers to list tickets. Many of the sellers of these
tickets, are past and former attendees to the event. I can certainly
pass along your feed back to management. However as stated we do not
have any plan to disallow sellers from selling for this event. We have
successfully allowed sellers to sell extra tickets for this event for
several years without issue. We certainly plan on allowing sellers to
process orders in the future. However I will pass the info on to our
management team.


If you have any other questions or concerns please feel free to
contact us at 866-788-2482 or email us back directly. We are happy to
help.

My final note:
Thanks Lorenzo.
In past years, as I recall there were several scalper's listing their speculations on Stubhub. Their numbers were insignificant compared to total sales through the organizers. This year it's drastically different. In past years no one cared about the few unscrupulous scalpers. And, so there's no confusion, none of the listings for multiple tickets now on your service (8 or 6) are past participants. By their very numbers they admit that they have scammed the system with multiple credit cards. The very foundation for Burning Man's philosophy, has always been against retail exploitation. In past years there was no structure for returning/refunding unused tickets so resellers were the only option. This year for the first time there is a face-value site available to easy redistribution. All this is obvious to even the most casual observer. The organizers are trying to remedy the situation they created, but I fear they won't have much success since these scalpers have the support of companies like the one you represent. Well, if your higher-ups don't get the message from my previous correspondence, or just plain don't give a shit, no further reasoning on my part will persuade them. Perhaps the firestorm will. The record of my emails and your responses will certainly make for interesting discourse on the 30 or more websites that will see them today. Please be sure that those responsible for corporate policy get to share the concerns of this worldwide community, and if by some "slip-up" they remain ignorant of the gravity of this situation, I'm afraid your job won't be worth a scalped ticket.
Yours truly, Michael R. Oddo

[Saguache]

Is buying or selling a scalped ticket illegal in your state? Check it out here...

[Bay Bridge Sue]

Is not illegal in Nevada.

I somehow thought it was against StubHub policy to sell ticket futures... After all, no one has ticket yet. How can they sell emailed confirmation letter as ticket?

Then againn, anyone who buys ticket from StubHub is flagrant wuss and paisley antiburner of 5th degree, is probably yuppy fratboy who has said

"Oooh, doooood, let's go crash big party in desert, dood, I hear they got free booze and naked chicks, we are sure to get laid bigtime, schhhhh-wing!"...

[lemur]

buying from places like hubbay also cuts you out of the loop in terms of 'survival guide' stuff being mailed to you..

unless you seek that info out yourself.. you may be woefully underprepared !

[Spadge63]

Would anyone like to trade their extra Burning Man ticket for a pair of hockey tickets to Saturday night's game? I'll even be your chauffeur and buy a couple round of drinks.

[huskyfan]

first I was mad, then sad, then motivated to do something. I'll not use scalpers. grief process I guess.

[Eric]

Is not illegal in Nevada.

I somehow thought it was against StubHub policy to sell ticket futures... After all, no one has ticket yet. How can they sell emailed confirmation letter as ticket?

Look at the dates the auctions say they'll ship the tickets their scalping: late August (a lot say you'll get your tickets Aug 24th, 3 days before Gate).

I would bet they don't have tickets or even confirmation emails, they're just speculating that they'll be able to get a ticket in the secondary market or out of those last minute ticket dumps when peoples plans fall apart.

I do wonder if speculation is allowed on StubHub.

[Litup]

I do wonder if speculation is allowed on StubHub.

Straying off topic, but I must say I love your avatar photo! I envy men for their ability to grow and openly display their facial hair in fanciful ways. Though, I must say, I would never give up boobs for a mustache.

[BurningTourist]

I am so depressed. BM is my annual panacea. It's my Christmas and New Year and some random selection has excluded me this year. I don't know how I am going to join my Camp Mates. I fly 7,000 miles to attend with so much glee. I am so sad this year.

[vjsf02]

BM folks should be smart. This year some dumb ass thought of a lottery and fucked up the life of 1000s of us little burners that have been going year after year worrying only about sandstorms. Now we have to worry about scalpels, fucking lottery designers, undercover cops snooping around, and all the elves I see when I get high. Fuck you, and fuck you dearly for this fiasco. hope you drown in the mud of the playa this year washed away by a biblical torrent.

Sincerely yours,


FU

BTW, did I mention, fuck you?

[BBadger]

BM folks should be smart. This year some dumb ass thought of a lottery and fucked up the life of 1000s of us little burners that have been going year after year worrying only about sandstorms. Now we have to worry about scalpels, fucking lottery designers, undercover cops snooping around, and all the elves I see when I get high. Fuck you, and fuck you dearly for this fiasco. hope you drown in the mud of the playa this year washed away by a biblical torrent.

Sincerely yours,


FU

BTW, did I mention, fuck you?

Please delete your account.

[Dustdevil]

He hit the nail on the head! Scalpels have always been my biggest fear.

[Bexx]

Speculation tix ARE NOT allowed on stub hub. It even says so in their TOS. I did the same thing, sent an email complaint.. Explaining that these tix are speculative.. That no one has them in hand etc. I got the exact same form letter as the OP.

IT'S TOTAL BULLSHIT. They know that the tix are not in hand.. But they are gonna let it happen anyways.. Because They get some kind of $ from it.

My husband and I used to use them all the time, to buy baseball tix.. Knowing we could get good seats for face value. We won't be using them any more. Fuck that noise.

[5280MeV]

Speculation tix ARE NOT allowed on stub hub. It even says so in their TOS. I did the same thing, sent an email complaint.. Explaining that these tix are speculative.. That no one has them in hand etc. I got the exact same form letter as the OP.

IT'S TOTAL BULLSHIT. They know that the tix are not in hand.. But they are gonna let it happen anyways.. Because They get some kind of $ from it.

My husband and I used to use them all the time, to buy baseball tix.. Knowing we could get good seats for face value. We won't be using them any more. Fuck that noise.

Just to clarify, if you have purchased a ticket from the vendor it is not a speculation ticket. A speculation ticket is one that you have not purchased and have no guarantee of getting. Tickets already purchased from BM are tickets "not in hand". You are allowed to sell such tickets on StubHub and some other places. It looks like on ebay people cannot sell tickets "not in hand". You just have to clearly state a shipping date that occurs after you have the ticket in hand. StubHub does not pay sellers until the ticket is shipped, so the people selling tickets for ~$640 will not be getting any money until July.

This actually works well for pro sports, as PSL holders can sell off their tickets before the package arrives in the mail. I know some NFL season ticket holders that routinely sell many of their "not in hand" preseason tickets for well below face value (as preseason tickets are typically not actually worth their face value).

[FlyingMonkey]

Is not illegal in Nevada.

I somehow thought it was against StubHub policy to sell ticket futures... After all, no one has ticket yet. How can they sell emailed confirmation letter as ticket?

Look at the dates the auctions say they'll ship the tickets their scalping: late August (a lot say you'll get your tickets Aug 24th, 3 days before Gate).

I would bet they don't have tickets or even confirmation emails, they're just speculating that they'll be able to get a ticket in the secondary market or out of those last minute ticket dumps when peoples plans fall apart.

I do wonder if speculation is allowed on StubHub.

I called them & spoke with a manager about their policy on this & YES they unfortunately do allow it. Surprisingly eBay does not allow this unless the event is less than 30 days out. so keep en eye on eBay & flag any that pop up outside that timeframe.

[Mosquitopilate]

Ok when is BMorg going to Email us Island of Misfit Burners about STEP info?

That is What we should call ourselves The Island Of Misfit Burners

[lemur]

A DEN-TIST?!!!?!

[Mosquitopilate]

Herbie wants to be a dentist!!
If I am lucky to get Tix I am making a shirt "Island of Misfit Burner" we should have a group

[AntiM]

Is not illegal in Nevada.

I somehow thought it was against StubHub policy to sell ticket futures... After all, no one has ticket yet. How can they sell emailed confirmation letter as ticket?

Look at the dates the auctions say they'll ship the tickets their scalping: late August (a lot say you'll get your tickets Aug 24th, 3 days before Gate).

I would bet they don't have tickets or even confirmation emails, they're just speculating that they'll be able to get a ticket in the secondary market or out of those last minute ticket dumps when peoples plans fall apart.

I do wonder if speculation is allowed on StubHub.

I called them & spoke with a manager about their policy on this & YES they unfortunately do allow it. Surprisingly eBay does not allow this unless the event is less than 30 days out. so keep en eye on eBay & flag any that pop up outside that timeframe.

And always, always send the auction URL of individual sales to the ticket office. This way there is a chance the ticket order itself could be cancelled.

[Saguache]

[ZaphodBurner]

I mentioned this elsewhere:

I'll pay $500 for a ticket if I can fight the scalper in Thunderdome.