Lessons Learned, Shared knowledge re ticket experience

[wh..sh]

@Shylar - There is a discussion about the kids at burning man. Some people have shared some amazing pictures of kids at burning man.
Check it out
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3921&hilit=kids&start=510

[shylar]

I feel bad for messing up this poor guys thread about his ticket buying experience.. A moderator should erase all these 'other off the subject' comments and give him his topic back!!! Sorry dude.

[lucky420]

Thread drifts happen and they are mildly/wildly entertaining

[TimInSilverlake]

Thanks for the thought - I'm fine with digressions, but my hope was that this thread would wind up helping others by pooling information on everyone's ticket buying experiences so that we can learn from one another. I was fortunate enough to have been selected to receive my tickets already, but I was trying to drum up some collaboration/teamwork/group self-reliance to help tease out some of the potential pitfalls so others can avoid them. Someone had responded in an earlier post that they took a chill approach and didn't think much about their registration, which I admire. In my case, I decided to take a detail-oriented approach to the process given some of the restrictions against signing up twice, the potential to fall out of the pool if you card doesn't go through, etc. Anyway, cheers to everyone and I hope to see you all at the Burn!

[gyre]

I strongly disagree. I didn't read malice into her post either, but strongly disagree that someone would want to impose their personal preferences as a policy or a means to basically ban people from being able to attend the event. It's ludicrous, and it's fucked up, just as I thought it was when someone suggested in another thread that sound camps should be banned as a means to reduce attendance/make more tickets available.

Probably my suggestion.

We seem to be past the point of unlimited tickets.

So, to be clear, you would ban a number of random hardcore burners from attending?
That's really what we are talking about, if ticket sales are less than the demand.
Not making choices is a choice.
Burning man has a long history of restricting things that are available elsewhere, when limitations have to be added, as with vehicles.

I have already seen the results of limited tickets with regionals.
Entire camps everyone wanted to see not attending, because too many in the camp didn't get tickets.

Do you really think there aren't a lot of people coming just for raver camps and nothing else?
I know I can get that without spending a week in a car burning gas.

I think there would actually be more music, which might be nice, to actually be able to hear it in some places, over the pa blocks away.
I hear more complaints than joy over excessive noise.

There's no reason there couldn't be reasonable powered amplified music, except that outside of the center cafe, the event has shown a clear inability to control this.

Random chance is still a decision to restrict attendance.
It hasn't turned out well for regionals, from what I've seen.

Who do you choose to not attend?
Or to not lure in, that wouldn't attend otherwise?

These are already decisions being made every year.

[trilobyte]

It's not choosing who to ban or who to exclude, it's giving everyone as fair shot at tickets as possible during the main sale.

[gyre]

I actually haven't suggested excluding anyone, just a relatively new attractant at the burn.

I hope for a solution that doesn't require excluding those who want to attend, as the current approach does.

[funkyjigsaw]

We really shouldn't let the facts get in the way of a really good fucked-up argument!!
Demand seems to have out-stripped supply of tickets. We know that the event sold out in July (is that right, I can't remember?). What we don't know is how many people wanted tickets but didn't eventually get them. Was it 1,000 people? 10,000 people? 100 people? What we also don't know is what effect has the 2011 'sell-out' had on demand for this year. It could be that it has boosted demand (because of the rarity factor), but we really don't know. The world is also in a bit of shit economically, so people may not want to pay to go BM in 2012.
I'm gonna make a prediction : When all the shennanigans and fucking about is all over, when the main sale is over, the opens ale is over, the after-market has shaken out ... I predict that 99.999% of people who want a ticket will have got a ticket (OK, maybe not at the price they would have liked), but got one all the same.
Of course, we'll never know the answer to this unless the BMOrg disclose it ....

[funkyjigsaw]

Oh and by the way, yes I did get the two tickets I needed. And yes the process and experience was great ... because I got the tickets ... Doh!!
Good luck to everyone else ... I know it will all work out OK ... if a tad stressful!

[gyre]

If demand remains higher than supply, an inevitable result will be higher trending prices on the aftermarket, in spite of the llc's intent and burner generosity.

Those with enough money to do so will simply try harder, if there is a ticket shortage.

Those with less money will be out, along with their ideas and energy.



I missed getting a ticket last year.
I wouldn't have made it anyway, but I wasn't going without a ticket.

I suspect a lot of people threw in the towel early, as tickets ran out.
Hard to guess real demand though, or the impact of an economy with less and less income.

[Sassy Britches]

So, sticking with the original lessons learned theme... READ THE ONLINE TICKET REQUEST FORM AND CHECK YOUR ORDER VERY CAREFULLY! Here is our story...

My husband and I decided to enter the pre-sale and try to secure our two tickets. Entry completed, confirmation email received, then waited for the presale, hoping for our tickets home. First day of presale, I received the email we all hoped for - ticket secured! yippee!!!

But there was something wrong.... we were only awarded one ticket! Was I somehow the very last ticket in the pool? I checked eplaya, and it was obvious that people were getting the number of tickets they requested. I clicked the link on the email to find out what the problem was. I was happy to receive a response from ticket support almost immediately, and learned that unfortunately I actually requested only 1 and not the 2 tickets thought I did. Ticket Support was understanding and empathic, and I read on to learn that "the gods were in my favor." There were some tickets remaining, all I had to do was click on the special link provided to request the second ticket, and was instructed to use a different email address and different credit card. With happiness and relief, I followed those dirctions carefully. Moments later, I received confirmation that my request was received. Whew!...

...But unfortunately, that was the last I heard. After almost daily attempts via the message links provided by ticket support, and a phone call today to the "burning man hotline", still nothing. I get confirmations that my messages have been received, and the confirmations all say I will hear for someone, but alas...

Am pretty frustrated, but still confident that we will secure our second ticket in the main sale or the secondary sale. At this point, I am not counting on a miraculous communication from ticket support. I am counting the days til we are back home!

Just wanted to share my story to emphasize my advice - check your entire order carefully before you hit that submit button!

[lucky420]

Sorry this happened to you Sassy Britches...and sorry for the stress it is causing, but thanks for posting and reminding the rest of us to pay attention next month when we register for tickets.

[trilobyte]

All isn't lost, Sassy Britches. But still great advice… Double check that form before you hit the submit button. It might also be a good idea to print the page in your browser.

[Sassy Britches]

Advice #2 - if you do run into a problem, stay persistent and positive, utilize all the channels available, and keep your sanity on the ePlaya.

Ticket Services came through today, problem resolved, my husband and I are both confirmed to be on the Playa.

What a great day!

SB

[lucky420]

YAY for Sassy Britches!!! ooooh I like the way that sounds

[endo]

He/she can be sensitive if he or she wants to be, I say! This community thrives at being able to express ourselves freely, including reacting offensively, and having to deal with our feelings about hurting other people's feelings.

While this thread is not about kids, I have notices that a lot of parents who bring their kids are VERY defensive about the topic...I am guessing that this is in part due to facing a constant negative reaction from others who see their choice as bad parenting. Just like a lot of us are viewed as sex-crazed, irresponsible drug addicts by people who have never been to burning man...which may be an accurate assessment, but it also may be way off the mark. We get a little defensive about this stuff. I have friends who have brought their kids and had an amazing and positive and totally responsible experience; I have had friends who did NOT have that experience, or whose kids were miserable.

My husband and I do not bring his kids (who live with us most of the time) mostly for the same reasons as shylar mentioned--WE do not want to have to behave responsibly.

But I think parents who get horribly offended by people who might not want kids at Burning Man are lacking in some compassion and maturity in seeing what others' issues might be. The reality is that a lot of us do stuff at burning man that we would not do with our kids. I know some parents see this as the height of hypocrisy, but if a person looks into issues surrounding child development, etc., there are some great reasons for kids to experience some of the things at burning man when they are older and have developed cognitive abilities such as the ability to perceive irony, etc. Also, kids are more vulnerable to dehydration and sunstroke than are adults, and the playa dust can cause lung damage in adults, as well as in kids. Look at childhood asthma statistics and exposure to particulates.

There are differences between kids and adults.

But there are also societal differences and legal differences between how adults are allowed to act with other adults versus children. Providing a child with alcohol is illegal; giving alcohol to adults is not. Getting a ticket for indecent exposure when a CHILD is involved can place you on a list of registered sex offenders. Most of us grown-ups have different boundaries with kids, and with different ages of kids, for moral as well as social/legal reasons.

At burning man, we push the boundaries in every direction. I have worn things at burning man I would not feel comfortable wearing at home...and my regular daily life is a lot more like burning man that many people's. I live where people are naked in front of each other regularly, where authenticity is allowed and prized, where people have group experiences with mind altering substances, and where people also have work and kids and are responsible.

Going to burning man means that I am around some of your children. And there are things I do not feel comfortable doing with them around, even if you do. There are things I could get arrested for if they are there, that I would not if they are not there. You bringing kids impacts my ability to do what I want to do safely. And, because I am seen as a safe and responsible person in my community, I also end up with babysitting duty sometimes when you leave for "just a few minutes," and return hours later to collect your child...I have seen even "responsible" parents seriously take advantage of those of us responsible parents who choose not to bring our children.

So is the solution to have no kids? From my perspective, people should do what they feel comfortable doing at burning man, responsible or not. I am willing to have my experience changed by my fellow humans, even the short ones. If some mom wanders off after smoking a J and leaves her kid with me for a few extra hours, I will feed her snacks, make sure she does not get too much dust in her lungs, make sure she is hydrated, move her away from the guy with his penis died up with string who is screaming about the fist-fucking workshop, and so forth. Because those are MY values, and I get to be who I want to be, too.

And as for my own step-kids, I support my husband's choice not to bring him. Partly for our own fun, but also because I want my eleven your old step-daughter to experience burning man when she is old enough to see that all the chicks decked out in sexy clothes are not just how women are supposed to act (a message that could be communicated as easily by bringing her to a Vegas chorus line or by watching re-runs of Babe Watch or whatever the current equivalent is), but that the fact that the 300 pound 50 year old and the 25 year old hotty are both dressed in sexy clothes because they are TOTALLY FREE TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES without the judgment of others, and that the culture of burning man is that none of us possess those hotties, that their dressing hot does not give us the right to harass, dominate, or control them. They are allowed to be powerful. We all are. My large breasts are complimented rather than oogled and grabbed. I think some of the more outrageous elements of burning man are a reaction to our oppressive and exploitative culture, and I would not want the kids to read that expression as validating the worst parts of our culture. For my step-daughters, the fact that they are not allowed to have barbies at dads still does not entirely make sense. In a couple of years, barbie death camp will make more sense. So far, the kids have been exposed to a culture that does little to objectify women compared to the larger american culture, so their appreciation of the ways burning man both embodies and spoofs our culture at the same time will have to wait a little, maybe until they are older.

My husband says to his girls that they can come to burning man when they can legally and practically drive themselves and an RV there. But sometimes I wonder...if burning man is no longer happening in 5 or ten years, will we regret not having them see this most amazing artistic and social experiment I have seen thus far? I am sure we will.

So kudos to shylar for concerns about kids present at burning man, and kudos to the people who bring their kids and expressed offense. Maybe y'all could be a little more tolerant of other people's emotions. Of course you hurt his feelings, you were mean; be nice, because when you bring your kids, that makes us be their parents, too, at least a little bit. We are doing something for you by helping to care for your kids, like it or not. And shylar, Of course they are going to freak out, they bring their kids and have probably been hammered by all kinds of folks who object.

--endo