ePlaya

by **lemur** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:32 pm

clearly a problem with this whole thing is the whole thing we see on the roadways... and in life in general

"IM NOT THE ASSHOLE... THAT OTHER GUY IS!!! LOOK AT HOW BAD HE IS DRIVING!!"

...people are always gonna see the problem as someone elses cause.. seeing their own efforts as golden and pure..

hell with this playaskool thing we see the apparent organizer talkin about new principles, bridging the gap.. apparently badmouthin the people who are on the other side of the table ..

of course, the people on the other side of the table probably see their efforts as pure and golden, hell! they were on the youtube burning man video, after all. and not lynched.. so theyll find some worser badder example to point at.. and on down the line.. everyone will find some other person who is worser badder to point at to justify their existence

theme camp/project organizers who charge money to camp as a 'fundraiser' to fund infrastructure/projects they cant afford pointing fingers at the vendor non-profits who break even

non profits charging money to camp there so they can break even.. pointing the finger at the for profits who arent so luxurious.. but still making profit..

the not-so-luxurious for profits pointing fingers at the super luxury for profits..

and down there someone.. the under the radar small timers, or big timers.. yucking it up, not pointing at anything but their virtual cash register and yuckin it up all the way to the bank at all of the whiners on this thread who just dont accept the evolution of burning man

and meanwhile.. the whole lot of them... theme camps/projects who fundraise by selling camp spots on playa, non-profit outfits who break even, for profit outfits who make money... ..all of them.. the whole lot.. end up turning it into a commodity..... yet none of them feels like they have cuz, ya know.. theres always gonna be some bigger asshole out there

woot!

by **PapaBear2120** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:41 pm

lemur wrote:clearly a problem with this whole thing is the whole thing we see on the roadways... and in life in general

"IM NOT THE ASSHOLE... THAT OTHER GUY IS!!! LOOK AT HOW BAD HE IS DRIVING!!"

and meanwhile.. the whole lot of them... theme camps/projects who fundraise by selling camp spots on playa, non-profit outfits who break even, for profit outfits who make money... ..all of them.. the whole lot.. end up turning it into a commodity..... yet none of them feels like they have cuz, ya know.. theres always gonna be some bigger asshole out there

I'm totally one of the whiners posting on here, but lemur, you got at least one whiner applauding about your post.

by **BBadger** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:59 pm

Zeke Chaparral wrote:This plug & play business brings to mind the old west. But eventually there came a time where real survival skills meant practically nothing, and any city slicker with a bunch of money could move in and make things comfy. For the real pioneer, this gentrification stunk to high heaven, and he kept moving until there was no place left to go to escape.

Oh please. That's a poor analogy. For one, few would find taming the West a bad thing. "Surviving" at Burning Man is hardly even that hard, requiring few survival skills besides bringing enough stuff to last a week. Sure people think their tent-living confers them some lame measure of supremacy over people in RVs, but it's in the end it's just car camping at a giant campground with porta-potties with all the camp amenities you can haul in.

by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:28 pm

BBadger wrote:
Zeke Chaparral wrote:This plug & play business brings to mind the old west. But eventually there came a time where real survival skills meant practically nothing, and any city slicker with a bunch of money could move in and make things comfy. For the real pioneer, this gentrification stunk to high heaven, and he kept moving until there was no place left to go to escape.

Oh please. That's a poor analogy. For one, few would find taming the West a bad thing. "Surviving" at Burning Man is hardly even that hard, requiring few survival skills besides bringing enough stuff to last a week. Sure people think their tent-living confers them some lame measure of supremacy over people in RVs, but it's in the end it's just car camping at a giant campground with porta-potties with all the camp amenities you can haul in.

I don't know that I quite agree with BBadger, but I, too, have trouble with the analogy. In my case, it's about the "wild" in that west. The west was "settled" first by young men who were more or less drifters, without any prospects in many cases and without any adherence to a basic code of behavior for people living in close proximity with each other. Later, when there were more people--specifically women--the level of violence went way down, and people got more "rooted". And then there's the utterly rapacious things people did for land and gold and any other way of making a buck (hey, it was kinda plug and play in a different way!) and the brutal ways in which peoples already on the land were disposessed. (Knowmad might have something to add here.)

by **Bob** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:44 pm

Perhaps we're mythologizing the Old West and/or Burning Man just a bit. Nonetheless, the org has gone to some effort in a number of areas to delimit what you people can and can't do at the event, and wrt this sort of adventure camping they seem to be asking for guidance on rules, or at least norms for meme-ifying.

by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:58 pm

Does anyone know if they are watching this thread? Or is there a better place to lodge our opinions?
Anyone? Trilo?

by **48_love** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:04 pm

BBadger wrote:Oh please. That's a poor analogy. For one, few would find taming the West a bad thing. "Surviving" at Burning Man is hardly even that hard, requiring few survival skills besides bringing enough stuff to last a week. Sure people think their tent-living confers them some lame measure of supremacy over people in RVs, but it's in the end it's just car camping at a giant campground with porta-potties with all the camp amenities you can haul in.

Frederick Turner disagreed with that! His (Frontier) thesis said that the end of the frontier was going to forever change America and American values. Just sayin' ...

I agree it's car camping, though. Maybe with an over-the-top "we did this together" vibe? That is what you get from BM marketing collateral ... that the participants built the city. In light of P&P, that's maybe not really the case. "We financed this together through awesome vendors!" Is that direction BMorg sees the event going? Maybe, so! Is it a threat to the fabric? Maybe, maybe not!

by **funkyjigsaw** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:28 pm

Let's not forget that the West was first colonized by the Spanish and the Portuguese, and that until very recently was part of Mexico. And the name California is in fact Muslim. Just chewing the cud n'all!

by **Annfan** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:18 pm

I, and at least 20,000 others are still wondering how they got tickets.

by **Savannah** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:37 pm

Annfan wrote:I, and at least 20,000 others are still wondering how they got tickets.

Just FYI--the implication of this thread is not necessarily that these Plug & Play folks got tickets in an illicit fashion--although anyone with money can risk their money (etc) paying a scalper, should they want to. (Someone may also register for the lottery, and then decide they have disposable income to have their every need taken care of.)

What's being discussed is whether Plug & Play camps should be placed/registered/favored, if they have value of some kind, and how the event should view these camps.

by **48_love** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:45 pm

I'm guessing there is a connection being made (rightly or wrongly) to Theme Camp directed ticket alottments where camps may or may not be Plug and Play.

I have to say (and it's also unrelated to P&P) that when the Outlook Calendar reminder for the Open Sale came and went today ... that was an angsty moment!

by **knowmad** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:50 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
BBadger wrote:
Zeke Chaparral wrote:This plug & play business brings to mind the old west. But eventually there came a time where real survival skills meant practically nothing, and any city slicker with a bunch of money could move in and make things comfy. For the real pioneer, this gentrification stunk to high heaven, and he kept moving until there was no place left to go to escape.

Oh please. That's a poor analogy. For one, few would find taming the West a bad thing. "Surviving" at Burning Man is hardly even that hard, requiring few survival skills besides bringing enough stuff to last a week. Sure people think their tent-living confers them some lame measure of supremacy over people in RVs, but it's in the end it's just car camping at a giant campground with porta-potties with all the camp amenities you can haul in.

I don't know that I quite agree with BBadger, but I, too, have trouble with the analogy. In my case, it's about the "wild" in that west. The west was "settled" first by young men who were more or less drifters, without any prospects in many cases and without any adherence to a basic code of behavior for people living in close proximity with each other. Later, when there were more people--specifically women--the level of violence went way down, and people got more "rooted". And then there's the utterly rapacious things people did for land and gold and any other way of making a buck (hey, it was kinda plug and play in a different way!) and the brutal ways in which peoples already on the land were disposessed. (Knowmad might have something to add here.)

There is no point.

by **Annfan** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:54 pm

Ooops, sorry. :oops:

by **BBadger** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:10 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Does anyone know if they are watching this thread? Or is there a better place to lodge our opinions?
Anyone? Trilo?

Maybe they don't want to hear everybody's assholes--er, opinions--focused on a specific outlet. They don't need another server crash.

by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:59 pm

Ah, BBadger, a wiser man than I am.

by **tummler** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:26 am

From the department of analogy seekers:

PnP makes me think of some of those Mt Everest packages. Are you really climbing Mt Everest if you're roped to the Sherpa you hired who's pulling you up the mountain? You know, the one who carried all your stuff, set up your tent, and brought you the meals the other staff cooked for you while you were meeting your obligation to your sponsor by blogging about your "adventure"? I'm thinking of you, Sandy Hill Pittman.

It's not so much about entitlement as adhering to the principle(s) of the thing. How would Edmund Hillary approach Burning Man?

by **gyre** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:34 am

tummler wrote:It's not so much about entitlement as adhering to the principle(s) of the thing.

How would Edmund Hillary approach Burning Man?

With Tenzing Norgay.

by **tummler** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:37 am

And no oxygen tank.

by **Visuddha** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:00 pm

Plug and Play is dangerous if left un-checked, but could be a useful means of selectively introducing new burners or VIP attendees to the event in the following scenario:

What if in the future (not so distant, it seems) the *main* Burning Man event in the desert each year becomes a [i]privileged[i] event to attend where regional BM communities represent themselves, their projects, they ways they have been impacting upon their local communities, and their visions of a world based upon BM principles and what they stand for. Black Rock City would become a yearly convention, of sorts, showcasing Radical Participation - locally, nationally, globally....year round. Regional Burning Man communities would spend some part of their year deciding who would go to the Main Event to represent their region, and who would stay behind, perhaps for an equally important local community event which would take place on the weekend of the Burn. Most tickets to the main event would be allocated regionally for the major contributors in the categories of art & music, healing and teaching, community service & outreach and leadership. Others would be available for distrubution amongst each region for Burners who may not be major contributors but who participate in community; there would likely be some kind of rotation- if not participating greatly and consistently, one may expect to go to the main event every 3-4 years.....

As for Plug and Play: There would be a pre-determined number of tickets released for sale to the general public. These tickets would be Plug and Play, and that would be the only way that someone new could experience the Main event for the first time, unless they had attended regional events, plugged into community and become a part of the community from within. These Plug and Play attendees would pay a premium price and be hooked up with a crew which not only attended to their logistical needs, but also to their introduction to Burning Man community. Upon buying their ticket, they would immediately be introduced to their "Default Delegate" (most likely a highly service oriented member of the regional community the ticket purchaser lives in). The DD would maintain contact with them throughout the process of preparing for Burning Man, be their liason at local BM events so they can begin to make personal contact with the Burning Man community, and finally, when on the playa would spend a good deal of time orienting the newcommers to their new landscape and educating them on Burning Man Principles, pehaps escorting them to a select number of classes/events/presentations, and checking in with them. The DD would be fully aware that they were playing the role of liason between Burning Man and the world at large, and they would have to willingly and happily assume a more selfless role during the event.

In this way, Plug and Play could selectively be used to support the closely monitored introduction of new Burners to an event that has become rather exclusive, and thus hopefully even more vibrant, potent and culturally and globally significant.

Thats my $.02. We'll work it out, Loves!

xoxo
Visuddha

by **FIGJAM** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:11 pm

by **Trishntek** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:11 pm

Visuddha wrote:Plug and Play is dangerous if left un-checked, but could be a useful means of selectively introducing new burners or VIP attendees to the event in the following scenario:

What if in the future (not so distant, it seems) the *main* Burning Man event in the desert each year becomes a privileged[i] event to attend where regional BM communities represent themselves, their projects, they ways they have been impacting upon their local communities, and their visions of a world based upon BM principles and what they stand for. Black Rock City would become a yearly convention, of sorts, showcasing Radical Participation - locally, nationally, globally....year round. Regional Burning Man communities would spend some part of their year deciding who would go to the Main Event to represent their region, and who would stay behind, perhaps for an equally important local community event which would take place on the weekend of the Burn. Most tickets to the main event would be allocated regionally for the major contributors in the categories of art & music, healing and teaching, community service & outreach and leadership. Others would be available for distrubution amongst each region for Burners who may not be major contributors but who participate in community; there would likely be some kind of rotation- if not participating greatly and consistently, one may expect to go to the main event every 3-4 years.....

[i]Fuck that bullshit! How say you earn your scout badges on your own!

As for Plug and Play: There would be a pre-determined number of tickets released for sale to the general public. These tickets would be Plug and Play, and that would be the only way that someone new could experience the Main event for the first time, unless they had attended regional events, plugged into community and become a part of the community from within. These Plug and Play attendees would pay a premium price and be hooked up with a crew which not only attended to their logistical needs, but also to their introduction to Burning Man community.

What the fuck do you think Burning Man is, some kind of country club?

Upon buying their ticket, they would immediately be introduced to their "Default Delegate" (most likely a highly service oriented member of the regional community the ticket purchaser lives in). The DD would maintain contact with them throughout the process of preparing for Burning Man, be their liason at local BM events so they can begin to make personal contact with the Burning Man community, and finally, when on the playa would spend a good deal of time orienting the newcommers to their new landscape and educating them on Burning Man Principles, pehaps escorting them to a select number of classes/events/presentations, and checking in with them.

The DD would follow them around with their cups, water and ass wipe along with blinies, EL wire and big flashlight! The DD will scout out the cleanest JOTS so the fragile sensitivities of the guest will not be offended by the sight of fecal matter.

The DD would be fully aware that they were playing the role of liason between Burning Man and the world at large, and they would have to willingly and happily assume a more selfless role during the event.

More selfless than whom?

In this way, Plug and Play could selectively be used to support the closely monitored introduction of new Burners to an event that has become rather exclusive, and thus hopefully even more vibrant, potent and culturally and globally significant.

Exclusive? You gotta be shittin' me! Just who in the hell is proposing exclusivity here?

Thats my $.02. We'll work it out, Loves!
No charge,,,, consider a GIFT!

xoxo
Visuddha

Fuck yer day,
Tnt

by **graidawg** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:03 am

Vissudha, that is the most horrific idea I have heard in this whole thread. it just throws all the principles out the window at once.

by **AntiM** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:21 am

I think V's post is some of the best snark I've seen in a long time.

by **MyDearFriend** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:07 am

Sorry to interrupt here but can I just ask who all these tent-sleepers are who supposedly distain the RV-sleepers? I can't say I have ever met one.

I sleep in a tent and have nothing but respect for Doc Pyro and his famous RV.

Personally I only distain the servant-havers. I am happy to sherpa but only for minions, which I think works very well; more like an apprenticeship really, with mutual respect. If these VIPs don't want to DIY then they should stay the fuck home and let some real people have the tickets.

by **Trishntek** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:01 am

AntiM wrote:I think V's post is some of the best snark I've seen in a long time.

I hope you are right AntiM, I tend to take posts at face value and defer to you when it comes to recognizing a sock.

by **munkycmunkydoo** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:18 am

MyDearFriend wrote: Personally I only distain the servant-havers. I am happy to sherpa but only for minions, which I think works very well; more like an apprenticeship really, with mutual respect. If these VIPs don't want to DIY then they should stay the fuck home and let some real people have the tickets.

+1,000,000,000,000

by **retropsycho** » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:58 pm

Theme Camp Forum #2 - with Plug 'n' Play as the very first topic

recording links:

Part 1: https://www.fuzemeeting.com/replay_meet ... e9/2318101

Part 2: https://www.fuzemeeting.com/replay_meet ... e9/2318153

by **eb0502** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:38 am

retropsycho wrote:Theme Camp Forum #2 - with Plug 'n' Play as the very first topic

recording links:

Part 1: https://www.fuzemeeting.com/replay_meet ... e9/2318101

Part 2: https://www.fuzemeeting.com/replay_meet ... e9/2318153

thank you for these..

i got as far as the 11th minute - when the question was asked

"would they not come if they werent catered to?" ------ "no, they wouldnt"

then the person being asked blamed them on being debutantes.....

does that not just say it all? are they ready for burningman? are they ready to be radically self reliant? are they ready for a transitional phase period? or as previously mentioned "they're having a paid vacation where there happens to be cool art and cool people"?

im pretty sure im not alone in saying this, but debutantes dont need to recreate the wheel on their first year, enough reading, enough planning and normal cognitive problem solving will get anyone through the week swimmingly, i really fail to see why their hand held is a deciding factor???

my virgin year was 2010 - so its not like im a snarking old timer or anything

by **Simon of the Playa** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:17 am

all i know is you bitches better bring me Booze, Drugs, Cigarettes and Women..

or else.

viewtopic.php?f=283&t=52298

by **lemur** » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:21 am

oh, so thats who Mr Redundant is

ePlaya

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