Plug & Play/Turnkey Camping

[TomServo]

People are free to be Douchebags if they want. JUST AS, people are free to call them on their shit.


I wonder, if the folks providing these services... http://bboutfitter.com/ ....have permission from the org. to be using the images for their little venture?

[catinthefunnyhat]

This is such an interesting issue, and I'm curious to see what gets hashed out in the end. It seems to me that there are natural tensions between some of the 10 principles -- in this case, in particular, radical inclusion vs. radical self-reliance, and maybe also decommodification vs. gifting. For every burner, there is probably a different conception of the ideal balance among them. Here's my take, as a very inexperienced burner; I'm sure it's flawed, but I hope it makes some sense:

I think illy dilly puts it well when s/he (sorry, I don't know how you identify) talks about a continuum which ranges from pooling resources (I have money; you have a vehicle) to selling a BM "package tour," and how hard it is to draw a line in the sand (er, dust). I'm inclined to say people shouldn't be allowed to make a profit off of "hosting" others on the playa. I realize that someone could probably point to a bunch of worthy exceptions, and that it would be nigh-impossible to police that kind of thing, but I still think it might be a reasonable guideline.

I also think that anyone hosting a PnP-ers, whether for free or for a fee, ought to commit to bringing only those guests/clients whose presence really will be a gift to the BRC community. A good start might be requiring hosts to educate their guests about the 10 principles and maybe even to vet them, and encouraging PnP clients/guests to contribute to the broader community (e.g. by volunteering, de-MOOPing, or creating something to share). Of course, it's almost certainly impossible to police any of that, too, as (a) some people's gifts may be intangible and/or not recognized by everyone, and (b) even the best-intentioned, best-prepared, best-educated person can have a meltdown and dissolve into a giant puddle of need.

So, yeah, I guess my take on it can be summarized as follows:

1. People can host others on the playa. This may include providing for their material needs and comfort, if for some reason they are unable to do so for themselves.
2. Hosts should not profit from doing this.
3. Hosts should take responsibility for their guests and do everything they can to ensure that their guests' presence, at the very least, is a gift to the community.

[nerdqueen]

btw, here's a counter example to BBoutfitters: the green tortoise.

http://www.greentortoise.com/adventures/burning.man.art.festival.html

last year - my first trip to the playa - if i hadn't found a boston theme camp i liked, i considered going with the green tortoise. it's a burner-style tour bus company that operates from san francisco. the tortoise brings you back and forth to the playa, provides a water supply, and has a communal meal plan. everyone is expected to work, cook, clean, LNT, and respect the culture of the place they're in. it's *exactly* the same on their routine trips to national parks, the badlands, mexico, or other destinations.

green tortoise is different from the BBoutfitters idea in many ways -- but i think most importantly, because they set responsible expectations among their campers, and focus on good citizenship on the road. first, all of the tortoise tour-and-camp trips are gritty -- and they market correctly (e.g. "this kind of travel isn't for everyone... no showers provided.") they provide links to burning man's site, and tips of their own for being a participant - not a spectator.

after several trips with the tortoise, i know that the dudes who run the buses have a good sense of history, logistics, and infrastructure - which they readily share so you have a sense of context. they know how to be good members of the community and want you to be the same. they indoctrinate noobs by example and by putting them to work. no whining allowed. self-selection, tight quarters, and group work makes for a bonding experience (bus romances and friendships bloom, people stay in touch for years). if nothing else, the type of camping they offer self-selects for people who don't want a resort.

[theCryptofishist]

Crud. The truth is that I don't bring a lot of practical skills to the playa and I rely on others to set things up for me... I don't know that that means I'm at plug and play camping, but I couldn't do it without a lot of help.

[PapaBear2120]

I was shown this video last summer by someone who was part of the build crew and catering for this camp. I don't know anyone but her and I'm going to refrain from making my own comments about it for the time being. I do think it's a fitting video for this discussion.

[Steel Kitty]

I always wondered what that sea of RV's was, sitting out on the Playa a week before the event. Now I know.

As with any adventure destination, money will get you anything you want.

[catinthefunnyhat]

Crud. The truth is that I don't bring a lot of practical skills to the playa and I rely on others to set things up for me... I don't know that that means I'm at plug and play camping, but I couldn't do it without a lot of help.

^This is probably true, to varying degrees, for a lot of us. It will become more true of more people in the community as we age. Radical self-reliance is a good value to espouse, but the fact is that as humans, we're radically inter-dependent. At the very least, we're all relying on the org for porta-potties, basic infrastructure, and the Burn itself. People who travel with friends might rely on them for help with food, shelter, and/or emotional support.

I have a close family member with multiple, severe disabilities (she's had chronic-progressive MS for 40 years). She travels and partakes in community because her friends and husband value her presence and are willing to do extra work and incur extra expense to make sure she can be there with them. Her presence really is her gift. These trips are radical inclusion in action; I thought about them a lot when I was pondering the PnP issue this morning. I would hope that, were she ever to come to BRC, nobody would begrudge her presence simply because she's relying on the support of others who are with her. I think the crucial difference between PnP and support is that in one case there's a commercial motive/model and in the other, it's gift-based.

I like the contrast above between BBOutfitters and the Green Tortoise.

P.S. Cryptofishist, unless you are a radically different person on the playa than you are here, you're giving back at least as much in intangible gifts as you are receiving in tangible ones.

[Bob]

Re: Green Tortoise, I built their shade structures too.

Staff camps have many of their needs taken care of for them by others -- dropping their RVs and trailers in place, shade structures, commissary services, trucking whatever they need in, storing it at the close of the event, water, ice, sewage, etc. You call them infrastructure, I call them theme camps. Theme camps with the cachet of organized adventure camping. So you might say that video conversation was among peers.

[Savannah]

I always wondered what that sea of RV's was, sitting out on the Playa a week before the event. Now I know.

As with any adventure destination, money will get you anything you want.

My feelings on Plug & Play aside: a good many of those RVs belong to volunteers for Emergency Services, Fire, Gate/Perimeter/Exodus, Greeters, Airport, Artery, Café, Temple builders, etc. (I don't know what percentage of DPW have RVs, although I'm guessing it's lower, due to the expense and because they're there for so long that a rental wouldn't make sense, and only an owner would have one.)

My favorite virgin of 2010--an RN near retirement age, who worked 40 hours her first Burn, alongside her volunteer husband--stayed in an RV.

[TomServo]

A couple years ago, I posted an International Burners Package proposal in eplaya. The idea was, to help burners from overseas, with a tent, tarp, cooking gear, basic tools, etc.. I simply supplied the tools...NOT the labor. "Burning Man is work"...say's Larry Harvey. Fishy, you know their are certain exceptions, and we are..for the most part... a caring community that's willing to lend a hand at the drop of a rebar stake.

[lemur]

I always wondered what that sea of RV's was, sitting out on the Playa a week before the event. Now I know.

As with any adventure destination, money will get you anything you want.

My feelings on Plug & Play aside: a good many of those RVs belong to volunteers for Emergency Services, Fire, Gate/Perimeter/Exodus, Greeters, Airport, Artery, Café, Temple builders, etc. (I don't know what percentage of DPW have RVs, although I'm guessing it's lower, due to the expense and because they're there for so long that a rental wouldn't make sense, and only an owner would have one.)

My favorite virgin of 2010--an RN near retirement age, who worked 40 hours her first Burn, alongside her volunteer husband--stayed in an RV.

yeah, theres that, and then you got the thing mentioned in the video 'playaskool' with 60 RVs just for their vendor services related camp, and thats just one business.. the other group at the table didnt mention how many they had (i dont think so at least), but there certainly aint just two of these camps operating out there.... it wouldnt take many such vendor services camps to end up being over 10% of the total amount of RVs at burning man.

with BLM estimates of roughly 8500 RVs at burning man.. you only need about 15 big vendor camps like the one mentioned in the video for 1 out of 10 RVs to be one of the vendor related ones...and it probably creeps up pretty high when you consider smaller vendors. We dont really know how pervasive this issue is, probably bigger than we imagine if they are making videos and PR stuff about it..

1 out of 10 tickets going to scalpers isnt so much... but for some reason, the possibility of 1 out of 10 RVs being organized by a vendor for their business customers at burning man seems like a lot... and that may be too many..too high of a %.., or it may be the tip of the iceberg.. probably tons of camps flying under the radar.

[trilobyte]

Personally, I don't like the idea of plug and play camping It's one thing for a camp to have organized their own commissary/food service, but when it's turning into logistics services business, I feel it crosses the line into commerce. And it gets even more troublesome when you hear things like Playaskool totally messing up on the idea of health permits and vendor deliveries, or you hear how these others who feel they're providing such a valuable and needed service are actually failing in the most basic principles. When the "participant" hasn't had to do any of the work, they don't learn the lesson. Why in the world would they consider picking up their own plate or dealing with MOOP, that's somebody else's problem and they've paid for the deluxe package.

I think that these camps should either not be located in the city proper (let them set up out by JOTS and other service providers), or placed only on the outermost streets and not be eligible for ticket allocations of any kind. The same also goes for things like bike commerce camp, it was troubling to see that bike camp in 9 o'clock plaza last year, not just placed but PREMIUM placement. While you could argue that by having a commercial bike hauling service available it would potentially mean fewer bikes are abandoned in the city, but they were there in 2011 and so were more than 2000 abandoned bikes - it didn't help the problem.

If people aren't doing their own work (individually, or as a self-organizing team), then they're not going to learn the lesson and there will be no acculturation. That's great that Table Nectar had one customer who had a magical moment and gave thanks, but if they were doing it right then every single person in the camp should have had that moment within their first day or two.

[Nipple]

Playaskool's Moop Map (they're the red square on the corner of 8 and Esplanade.)



Now... they had MUCH more space than that. That's just where their structure and commissary were.

[alt12]

Sorry I missed that mention of "clients", and I do admire those three for putting themselves out there for public scrutiny, deserved or not.

And they certainly deserve public scrutiny. I found the whole video rather nauseating. I know these plug/play tour-guide douchebags are out there. I've seen them for years. I remember the british billionaire camp from about 4 years ago where they hired someone to build them the massive duck art-car and huge "sound camp" that no one ever visited. I wish these so-called burners could find a way to make a living without selling out the event. At the end of the day, the more mainstream the event becomes the more parasites will come and try to find a way to capitalize on it. It is just the reality of our culture. I don't see anyway to go back except to make it as difficult as possible for them to accomplish this. Sadly the ORG seems to be taking the opposite tack and trying to accommodate them while engaging them in the hopes that they will try to adopt more of the community culture. Seems like a faustian bargain to me.

[moonrise]

Disabled burners are in another category. I'm partially physically disabled, if we need help and get it THANK YOU! & Fishy knows she's in a league of her own (smart, interesting etc) How the hell is she supposed to set up a camp? She pulls her wieght in other ways, nuff said.

I watched the video (wow, can you say yuppie or what) not knowing all of the minute details. I agree with Trilobyte and the others who think this feels "off".
The woman in the video said charge more fees, blech, how about do more for yourselves, instead of throwing more money at the situation.

I went to my first burn alone, made a boatload of new friends and ran into a few dear old friends. I'll bring everything I need, contribute to the city and to my camp and do a show or few. Volcanos~ and then some~ Yum~

[Pop_Tart]

Question: Are we hosting a Plug & Play camp?

For our 2012 Erection (BaalMart), MalMart needs approx $20K-$25K to rent scaffolding, speakers, projectors, lights, & moving trucks. These funds will also be used to fabricate geodesic domes, fabric wall panels, comfy couches, and sturdy ramps. Currently we have 22 total Core Mal-Mart members with tickets (7 lottery, 15 from BMOrg & Placement [THANK YOU!!!]). We 22 core members are artists, school teachers, engineers, stage designers, computer programers, DJs, etc, etc, etc. We are not trust fund babies or indepently wealthy. We have our 9-5's, and our 2 weeks of vacation per year, and we all live our 51 weeks per year looking forward to our 1 week in the desert.

That said, we 22 cant afford $1K+ each. We have to bring in non-core people to assist via camp dues and fundraisers. We are looking to charge $150-$200 in dues per person and seeking to get a total camp size of 100-149. In exchange for camp dues, people get a communal kitchen they can use to cook their own food, a patch of prime real estate to put up their tent, and a huge grey water evap pool. They also get the opportunity to participate daily with the Baal-Mart structure, events, and activities. In my eyes, we are a group of anarchistic burners bringing in other ticketed burners, virgins and otherwise, to help offset the costs of our crazy structure. The only 4 things we ask our non-core members is to bring a couple of handles of vodka to donate to the bar, to keep the kitchen clean, to perform daily Moop patrols of the camp, and to help with the breakdown of the structure. They still have to bring all of their own tents, food, water, costumes, bikes, RVs, etc. In 2010, we charged people extra to get a room in the structure. That felt kind of wrong, as it made us more of a commercial hotel type experience. This year we will be setting up some communal crash lounges in the structure where anyone can pass out for a spell.

We are also planning to offset our costs further with other fundraising events such as concerts (http://www.facebook.com/#!/events/272347569505115/), themed swag for sale (bandanas and Mal-Mart Vests), dinner parties, a casino night, and every other conceivable way to bring in $$$. Even with all of these cash raising events, we expect that several of us 'most-core' members will have to shell out a few grand of personal cash to make the BM week happen. No profit will be made from dues. The very thought of people profiting from BM adventures makes my skin crawl.

So in that broad spectrum, what are we? Plug & Play? Pay To Play? Theme Camp? Where do you draw the line? I have no shame in roping in others to help pay for this awesome structure and, from my own experience, I know that they will go from virgin spectactor to 100% participant in less than a day. We are awesome like that. No virgin orientation classes required.

[Dr Jet Sinister]

From the "What is Burning Man" section of the website:
...These people make the journey to the Black Rock Desert for one week out of the year to be part of an experimental community, which challenges its members to express themselves and rely on themselves to a degree that is not normally encountered in one's day-to-day life. The result of this experiment is Black Rock City, home to the Burning Man event...
...Community, participation, self-expression, self-reliance; these tenets of Burning Man are lifeblood of the Burning Man experience. Whether you are new to this site or are returning for your umpteenth visit, you are encouraged to delve into these pages to expand your viewpoint and definition of these ideals, and to connect with yourself to find your niche in our community. The giving of yourself is the greatest gift you can give to the Burning Man community, and is imperative to the survival of this unique experiment...

From the video above:
"Leave it to a hotelier to create something like this." In reference to the one man who created their P&P camp so his guests could simply show up and view the festival. How did bringing his friends for his birthday enhance the overall community at BRC? Was this a case of 'the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many'?

I don't believe shepherding a few virgins is the same as a large, provided-for group. In most camps, virgins are expected to work as much as a core member in setup, operation, and take down. When virgins outnumber the vets, that's when the chaos can occur. I also do not believe that everyone's first experience must be some hardcore car camping in the outer rings to prove themselves either. There is a spectrum here, as Nipple said, just as everything in life is a spectrum. Discussing different points on the topic will, hopefully, bring the issue into a sharper focus.

[alt12]

I was shown this video last summer by someone who was part of the build crew and catering for this camp. I don't know anyone but her and I'm going to refrain from making my own comments about it for the time being. I do think it's a fitting video for this discussion.

This video is wild! It looks like a Carnival Cruise line affair except everyone is wearing the same Pimp Sheik(TM) clone outfit. This is so far from my experience of burning man theme camp life that it might as well be a different event. Catered buffet meal service, pre-built air conditioned condo/yurts, etc. Crazy. Very American though. There is some kind of fantasy that comfort/luxury = good. Whereas its very clear at burning man that literally you got what you put into it. The more effort you put in and the more you are involved the deeper the community experience. Its truly a sweat-equity event.

But hey if these guys want to parachute into event and land in pre-set-up RV camp, I guess that's up to them. Personally, I trie to ignore/avoid these types of camps/people and pretend they are not there....

[lemur]

id forget the word plug and play, pop-tart. it obfuscates the real words: vendors selling services to customers as a business.




the problem to me seems to be if the LLC doesnt embrace these people in some way, theyll still be doing it anyways, but without any form of oversight... people are motivated by money and theyll do it under the radar if they arent doing it above the board.. such is life.

probably the best way to deal with it is to make all vendor business camps do what nearly all other concert/festival/carnival events do: pay a vendor fee to setup shop and give a % of proceeds to the LLC.

if you are caught not doing things the right way you and all yer customers/clients are removed from the event.

a good step in the right direction is getting rid of this newspeak plug and play term that really tries to shy away from what is really happening: businesses operating within the confines of BRC.

[Bob]

...I think that these camps should either not be located in the city proper (let them set up out by JOTS and other service providers), or placed only on the outermost streets...

With all due respect, some of us would like to keep the hinterlands to ourselves and our Paiute brothers.

Nothing I've read adequately defines "plug and play" problem camps in actionable terms that sufficiently differentiate them from staff camps, funded artist camps, or any camp that might have similar issues, real or imaginary.

[moonrise]

Yea, I don't where to draw a line. But excess funds raised with group effort (not just write a BIG FAT CHECK) could always be used for the following year for camp, art and such. I wouldn't consider that (oh so creepy) profit.

Lavish, luxury camps rarely seem inviting (more like snobby). There is a recession afterall and these billionaires & multi millionaires do have limits...uh!

[Dr Jet Sinister]

..probably the best way to deal with it is to make all vendor business camps do what nearly all other concert/festival/carnival events do: pay a vendor fee to setup shop and give a % of proceeds to the LLC.

if you are caught not doing things the right way you and all yer customers/clients are removed from the event.

Yes. Don't forget to pay your protection money for the privilege of doing business in their city. It's up to the rest of us to adapt to a new BRC or leave.

[TomServo]

Nothing I've read adequately defines "plug and play" problem camps in actionable terms that sufficiently differentiate them from staff camps, funded artist camps, or any camp that might have similar issues, real or imaginary.

Are we trying to differentiate them? Staff camps, artist camps, etc.. are not a package deal. They are...or at least should be...for working participants. They are not advertised online, like a vacation deal, and inhabitants are expected to abide...like everyone else.. to the "Leave No Trace/Don't let it hit the ground" tenets. Also, with perhaps the exception of First Camp, tents or RV's are, generally, not provided already placed and ready to go.

[theCryptofishist]

So, does Sergei Brin set up his own camp?
Hire some personal underlings?

[lemur]

Nothing I've read adequately defines "plug and play" problem camps in actionable terms that sufficiently differentiate them from staff camps, funded artist camps, or any camp that might have similar issues, real or imaginary.

well i guess the difference is in which business are allowed to operate at burning man.

the LLC is a for profit business, and so are the people they contract to provide vendor services.

staff camps and funded artist camps, and camps that use vendors that the LLC has allowed to operate in the city (sewage/water/commisary..etc) are all under the umbrella of the LLC and their business, in terms of the LLC contracting those vendors. the LLC profits off of people building the staff camps and the myriad of services those camps are provided (electricity, water, sewage, commisary, showers, trash.. etc) because those camps are part of the burning man 'infrastructure' (see: whatever the LLC sees as needed to run their big huge for profit camping trip)

the difference i see between those staff/funded camps and the ones that are subject of the video are that the LLC hasnt, apparently, contracted these people out, or approved them to operate as a business within the city. the only ones apparently profiting off of their services are the external-to-the-LLC businesses.

...many big theme camps that require dues and fundraisers might end up with a surplus of money at the end of the event... but they arent explicitly operating as a business.

thats where the difficult "actionable terms that sufficiently differentiate them" thing comes in as i see it.... the issue is INTENT... and its nearly impossible to know.. unless we find a website or advertisement about a business.. that someone is doing it for profit as a business...... and its simply as easy as keeping a low profile and hiding your intent to avoid being considered a vendor.

so yeah, almost impossible for an actionable differentiation between a for profit vendor camp selling their RVs to customers and a dues-based-big-theme camp that may merely end up with a surplus of cash at the end of the event..

Nothing I've read adequately defines "plug and play" problem camps [same quote as above..]

Are we trying to differentiate them? Staff camps, artist camps, etc.. are not a package deal. They are...or at least should be...for working participants. They are not advertised online, like a vacation deal, and inhabitants are expected to abide...like everyone else.. to the "Leave No Trace/Don't let it hit the ground" tenets. Also, with perhaps the exception of First Camp, tents or RV's are, generally, not provided already placed and ready to go.

i agree with Bob...the staff camps, and the services provided to certain theme camps/art projects are certainly a great thing to point at when trying to get people to understand what this, perhaps intentionally murky, use of the term "plug-n-play" means......

the staff camp im involved with gets access to commisary, showers, trash service, gray water hauling, potable water, storage (delivery/placement/removal of containers), heavy machinery, electricity, communications, golf carts/transportation... as well as provided all of the needed structures (which in recent history, our group assembles/sets up)... if that aint 'plug-n-play' (i.e. vendor provided business) i dont know what is....

again, it has to do with INTENT

...whether the staff camps are meant to be for workers or not, it is all down to intent to differentiate between what they are doing and what an external for profit business might be doing.. (edit: in the case of a staff camp the LLC is the for profit vendor)

[scottgeller]

I'm not sure you can define 'plug n play' in black n white. Four burns self reliant with friends, built a yurt, etc. Last two burns with a very organized camp ( overkill....10 & G )......still had to build our yurt, help with the overall build ( these guys built Circus Maximus 2010 ) and make the environment happen. The only luxury was a prepaid kitchen with a pro cook.....but we still had to stock up in Reno like everyone else. We had a power grid too....so that at least eliminated our personal generator. And I'm not sure BRC attracts moochers and looters....everyone did their part.

Watching those hot NYC drop dead beeatches stooping to pick up playa moop was one of the highlights of 2010 ( evolution?? )........PEACE...)'(...."beacon sway".....see ya on da Playa

[moonrise]

Of course Fishy, he has to pick up a phone and order up a camp, or speak to his personal assistant. This is called "setting up a camp" to someone with THAT much dough. Does he even know who his real friends are? This is a problem most of don't have, nor ever will. google is our friend, I hope.



ETA: Maybe some of these fancy camps can send the "help" out with plates of nutrition to us poor folk. Please don't drug it and we're all good.

ETA (again) I bet google would hire you Fishy!! Apply, see what happens...hmmm...ya never know. I've been told they like burn or more on your resume.

[theCryptofishist]

Yeah, but I'm not google's best friend, like Brin.

[SassySunny]

I and all the Burners I know are very opposed to the P&P mentality.
Over the past many years, my husband and I have been part of a few different camps, both large and small. We enjoyed the fact that we were participants and that BM was a place where everybody enjoyed radical self-sufficiency and self-expression. Part of that wonderful experience was the fact that we each helped to take care of the necessities. We "built" our own camps, maintained them and kept them clean. We generally helped one another and we each pulled our own weight. This was the cement that we all shared. We gifted food and shared duties and felt as one big family. That was an integral part of the BM experience which was experienced by everyone, no matter which camp we were with.
This concept of Plug 'n' Play changes that equality and adds an aspect that is foreign to the nature of BM. It means we can now pay for the privilege of being elite, and of shirking all the responsibilities of being actual Burners. It means we can become spectators instead of participants, and visit a "resort" environment where we are no longer self-sufficient. It changes the entire culture, and attracts people who would not otherwise survive the environment nor be able to actually take care of themselves there.
It just isn't why we old-time Burners go to BM. It dilutes the experience of "coming together" in this harsh environment to experience together this culture together. If this "B&B" mentality is implemented, it will drastically change the BM experience, culture, and the people. It will no longer be the wonderful community that has made it what it is. And it will open the door for more and more commercialism in the future, drifting further and further from the original concept and experience of BM.

[moonrise]

Right on SassySunny

Where is the balance? Seems worrisome, to say the least.