Injun giving

[jag8]

If you bought someone a bm in march and they still havnt preped whatsoever or even acted like its a priority would you ask for the ticket back?

So yep. Bought a friend a ticket in march. I have been prepping since march and am ready to roll out sunday night. Yesterday he tells me that were not gonna be able to leave till monday night due to him not having money. He gets paid that monday at 1 and expects me to take him to get his check then immediately after go shopping for ALL of his food and supplies.when I told him I'm leaving sunday night, he said he would be finding another ride out then.

This is an extremely close friend of mine but this is his first time and clearly doesn't get it or have the passion I thought I could spark through buying him a ticket. I get the vibe he thinks he's going camping for a week.

I feel like his end of the bargain hasn't been held up in the least and I want my ticket back.

Am I in the right or a really shitty friend?

[jkisha]

So what would you do with the ticket if he gave it back? Asking will do nothing but make a bad situation worse...at least for the friendship. Might as well suck it up and just learn from your mistake. But definitely let him know you won't be babysitting him on the playa if he's not prepared. Chances are he won't even show up.

[junglesmacks]

I would have a serious heart to heart and question him directly whether or not he wants to go, and give him the out to give the ticket back right away and in time to sell it if not. Maybe.. lightly encourage it? Demanding it back would only exacerbate the situation.

[jag8]

That's the feeling I'm getting as well. I think he won't show up or bepainfully unequiped for the landscape.

Between osirus op temple and inspiratum I know plenty of people I could sell the ticket to for face and would be estatic.

(The ticket was a PURE gift to my friend back in march. I had a good tax retun, but gettin the money back and seeing somone piss their pants at being able to go might be worth it.

[ygmir]

but, know, he's gonna want you to "babysit", no matter what you both say. He'll need it.
good luck.

[junglesmacks]

Between osirus op temple and inspiratum

Excuse me? Inspiratum? We're camp mates.. lol

[FIGJAM]

A gift is a gift.

The ticket is his.

I would ask if he has done the required reading and if he has'nt, flat out tell him that he is not prepared for this trip and you know someone who is.

"Should haves" don't count, but I think I would have held the ticket to see if he was serious by his actions and prep.

Be nice or rip the bandaid, your call.

[trilobyte]

Don't just take it back, have a conversation. If your friend is that cash-strapped and unprepared, they may not really have their heart in going. On your friend's side, this may be something that they're only doing because it seems like such a big deal to you. Let the friend know that if money's tight and their heart's not really into it, you'd be completely cool with them not going, and let them know that you'd be able to find a good home for the ticket.

If your friend insists that they're into it, then I'd say suck it up and wait for your close friend and be there for them as patiently as you can while they get their shit squared away. Remember, it's their first time - they don't even know.

Good luck!

[2toburn]

You should take it back and sell it to me! lol

JK. Although I def need one, I am not that selfish..

Being you gave him the ticket it is his. You prob should have bought it without giving it to him UNTIL you were sure he got his sh*t straight, but alas, the past is the past.
I would def have a talk with him, reiterating it IS the desert and he may be making life very hard for himself (and for you for that matter) if he tries to go underprepared. But try make it more about his path than yours, and hopefully he will bow out. Good luck!

[theCryptofishist]

The term "indian giving", as I understand it, relates to the differences in understanding between what the indians and what the white men considered as "ownership" of the land. While I don't belive that you titled your thread as you did in order to make people cringe, it is what happened. If what you wanted was to have a discussion about your friend and the ticket you bought him, you made a mistake. If you wanted to hurt and offend people, good job.

[junglesmacks]

If you wanted to hurt and offend people, good job.

Are you hurt and offended, Fishy? Everyone else seems to be doing ok with it being as that the intent is clear with no harm no foul and the term is a commonly used colloquialism in modern English language? *shrug*


Not saying that it's "right", just that it is. Just saying.

[theCryptofishist]

No, more shocked and horrified. And mortified and embarassed. I know of at least two indians who have been on this board. One has grown beyond it (I last saw him on tribe.net) and the other is in my village. We are grown-ups. We can watch our language. We can be aware of the things that we do that can hurt people.

[swampdog]

2 years ago one of my oldest friends finally decided to meet me on the playa. We don't get together that often, but we've stayed in touch since the 70s.

I didn't buy his ticket or anything, and we traveled in from different cities, but I did promise him (and delivered) a comfortable and well stocked camp. But as much as I tried to encourage him to prepare, plan his travel, etc etc he kept putting it off. He finally arrived on Friday(!) and he didn't have a very good time. His attitude on playa was kind of above-it-all, like he was an art critic at a museum or a sociologist visiting a peculiar tribe of people. He said of the Temple - "well, I see what they're trying to do, but don't you think it's awfully trite?" He was traveling on after the burn to meet up with his parents, so he rode with me most of the way home. His opinions were shallow and not well thought out. I recognize now what everyone else has always said - he's arrogant, amazingly self absorbed, and not nearly as smart as he think he is.

I wouldn't say this experience busted our friendship, but it did make me less interested in keeping in touch. It showed me that the image of friendship I've had in my head for 30+ years is, well, 30+ years old and no longer maps to reality.

I'm just sayin'. Some people are not meant to Burn. If your friend is one of them, you may be doing both of you a favor if you relieve him of the obligation of Burning with you. He may not see it that way and it may "cause" a rift in your friendship. I put "cause" in quotes there because maybe the rift is already there and you're just not seeing it or admitting to it.

[junglesmacks]

I guess the key to that would be education, as I would think that most people in society are unaware of the history of the term. This would be the lead in to a much deeper conversation with regards to language and words vs intended meaning vs history behind them. We could pick out all kinds of different cases. Is using the "N" word offensive even if the intent is pure? To me, sure it is.

Pandora's box we have here..

[BBadger]

Just ask if he reaaaally wants to go and tell him if he doesn't think he'd make it you have some folk that could use it, and you'd even buy it from him at face value for the trouble. It might even be a relief for him. But don't treat it as if you "own" that ticket and that you're entitled to take it back if it's not utilized in the manner you see fit (even if wasted).

[trilobyte]

I'd say it probably ranks with Cleveland Indians or Atlanta Braves as far as cultural insensitivity goes. I don't think you need to necessarily know the history of the term to know that a lot of terms that were okay to use back in the 70's may be considered politically incorrect today. I also don't think the original poster had any intention of causing any bad feelings for anybody, and can only hope that anyone potentially offended by the term realizes it was probably just an innocent mistake.

[jkisha]

Interesting take on that. That's one of those expressions that has been around for so long that I never would have given it a second thought as being offensive. The origin has been obscured by the meaning it has today. Coming originally from Cleveland, I was a bit surprised too that some people took offense and wanted to change the name of the baseball team The Cleveland Indians!

The term "indian giving", as I understand it, relates to the differences in understanding between what the indians and what the white men considered as "ownership" of the land. While I don't belive that you titled your thread as you did in order to make people cringe, it is what happened. If what you wanted was to have a discussion about your friend and the ticket you bought him, you made a mistake. If you wanted to hurt and offend people, good job.

[jag8]

see..... I can be gentle.

[Bay Bridge Sue]

Ummm...

It's HIS ticket, if he has a plan to stock and go on Monday, then that's his plan. Who are you to judge? Why do you have EXPECTATIONS of someone elses burn? And if he fails... it's not YOUR failure, it's his.

Why would you take it back? That seems kind of CS. It would be like if I took the ticket I gifted one of our campmates and then gave it to someone else. Not cool.

I've done last minute things before - hell, we used to LIVE last minute. I'm JUST NOW packing my shit to leave next Wednesday. I'm also going on money I barely have. Someone gonna tell me I cant go, because I'm not doing my burn on their schedule????!! And you bet your ass I'll be at better than 90% when I get out there...

The point is this - you gifted him the ticket, it's his. Not yours to take back. Giving a gift, only to demand it be returned, is pretty, um, well... I wouldn't hang with someone who knowingly did that.

Have some faith, and some love, and know that he will be there. And let it go. Otherwise your burn will be filled with stress, drama, and other unpleasantries neither you nor your campmates want.

[Eric]

It's HIS ticket, if he has a plan to stock and go on Monday, then that's his plan. Who are you to judge? Why do you have EXPECTATIONS of someone elses burn? And if he fails... it's not YOUR failure, it's his.

Why would you take it back? That seems kind of CS. It would be like if I took the ticket I gifted one of our campmates and then gave it to someone else. Not cool.

I've done last minute things before - hell, we used to LIVE last minute. I'm JUST NOW packing my shit to leave next Wednesday. I'm also going on money I barely have. Someone gonna tell me I cant go, because I'm not doing my burn on their schedule????!! And you bet your ass I'll be at better than 90% when I get out there...

+1

I haven't even pulled out my Burn tubs to check on them yet. We're just finishing up the editing of a paper that we need to still have 30,000 copies printed before we leave- in a little over a week. I also have no money set aside and have to use it as it comes in- I'm poor.

Like BBSue said- that doesn't mean were not running on *our* schedules just fine.

Put it this way- you give a friend a $300 jacket and they don't wear it the way you want them to, or as often as you think they should. Would you ask for it back? Even if they never use it, it was a gift to them, freely given.

You gave him a wonderful present, let him decide how to use it.

[Mansoon]

Hey, last year I had a young campmate, who WAS SPECIFICALLY WARNED, show up days late, without even a sleeping bag, no glowy stuff, goggles, waterpack, and we had to help him. It was a pain (dude even changed his plans and left a day early to "get back to school," forgetting no school on Labor Day). His girlfriend (my friend), was a virgin but somewhat more prepared. I had extras, knowing It was a pleasure to help them with the experience. But a pain.

[jag8]

Thank you for your wisdom everyone.

I'm going to talk with said friend tonight an put it out there that if he doesn't want to go or would rather save money; he shouldn't feel obligated.

on that note if he still chooses to go and wants to use the ticket, its his choice and his destiny. my jeep (and his current ride) are leaving Sunday afternoon however, with or with out him.

Times like this force me to remember one of my favorite phrases:

There are no wrong or right decisions in life; simply consequences for our actions.

This is a valuable lesson that both of us will be learning to live with over the coming weeks.

[H.G.Crosby]

i think i can safely speak for the entire sub-continent when i say that the term used in this post is derogatory towards all customer service reps and 7-11 owners.

[Mansoon]

It was changed to "'ersatzgiver' giving" from "Indian giving. " Though, the Indians were usually pretty good about keeping their word, as far as giving goes. The term "Indian giver" was meant to refer to the white interlopers, who would promise this or that and back out, NOT the natives,a s I understand.

[mdmf007]

Just my two cents here.

The ticket is his IMO, and if its a couple of hundred in supplies he needs before he goes and gets paid that monday. Loan him the money with the expectation you get paid back on his return.

Then you both get what you need, he heats, and you get to leave on Sunday.

[Bob]

Isn't the term Indian Gifting?

My advice -- don't loan him money, he'll likely Welsh on you. And you probably won't get out of town until Wednesday or Thursday.

[Mansoon]

Maybe you can jew him down on the help you'll give him. If he's not yellow-bellied, he might try to stick to you like a tar baby there, but, otherwise, he might take too much something at BM and they have to haul him off in a paddy wagon.

[Drawingablank]

Maybe you can jew him down on the help you'll give him. If he's not yellow-bellied, he might try to stick to you like a tar baby there, but, otherwise, he might take too much something at BM and they have to haul him off in a paddy wagon.

I have really got to stop taking sips of coffee while pages load here.

Yet another mess to clean up.

[Roberto Dobbisano]

mmmmmmmmm, old school ethnic slurs.....


+1

[C.f.M.]

If you bought someone a bm in march and they still havnt preped whatsoever or even acted like its a priority would you ask for the ticket back?

So yep. Bought a friend a ticket in march. I have been prepping since march and am ready to roll out sunday night. Yesterday he tells me that were not gonna be able to leave till monday night due to him not having money. He gets paid that monday at 1 and expects me to take him to get his check then immediately after go shopping for ALL of his food and supplies.when I told him I'm leaving sunday night, he said he would be finding another ride out then.

This is an extremely close friend of mine but this is his first time and clearly doesn't get it or have the passion I thought I could spark through buying him a ticket. I get the vibe he thinks he's going camping for a week.

I feel like his end of the bargain hasn't been held up in the least and I want my ticket back.

Am I in the right or a really shitty friend?

First, I wouldn't have bought a ticket for anyone other than someone I KNEW I could count on. If I were in your situation, a week before the event, and he's as unprepared as you claim he is, I'd sell the ticket to someone else.

You did your part. There's no reason for you to suffer and wait around for him.

He knows when he gets paid (theoretically) and should have planned for his pay dates. He also should have been setting money aside since the day he decided to go. I have a completely seperate BM fund to ensure my actual financial situation doesn't affect my ability to go, when the time comes.

So no, given how unprepared, which reflects a...half-assery, I don't think it's totally wrong if get the ticket to someone ready and willing.