Tickets Selling Out = Social Experiment

[Token]

Don't you think it likely that Marion G. Cooked up the whole thing as part of the "Social Experiment", for snitz'n'giggle, in some drunken stupor at an artfuck gallery opening du jour in SF over a $1.00 bet?

BLM has no desire to cap the event; lost revenue and all - the mighty $$$ trumps all rhetoric.

Sure, everyone is going to sing praises about the cap on ticket sales come mid September , but you all know the "Glitterati" will be soaking their poor souls and sunning their buns at Fly Ranch, LTMFAO at the "Social Experiment in Culture".

To my dear procrastinators, from a kind and loving place: "You be fucked! For the explicit purpose of entertainment and possibly a meaningless wager"!

[earthling]

I don't have a clue, and it really doesn't matter.

Mostly I think it is a case of poor or thoughtless organization.

If "you/it" plan to cap ticket sales, say so at the beginning, up front and on top, and keep a counter. Anything else screams ticket master or stoner coordination, or yes, perhaps bar room wager. I have yet to see any reason why it was handled vi rumor and bomb drop. Some of us actually work for a living or actually producing art and don't have time to spend every day tracking Burn rumors or page 3 hints... and yes, i get some of the list emails.

Last year it was 7000 th on the webwait line on day1hour1, so what was the point. Throw in shipping and its just as easy to go up to Sports Basement (for those of us 'lucky' enough to live in SF) and buy one when they finally decide to go to outlet sales, or a resale at yup, cost if you can imagine that. Well, apparently that doesn't work either. Can't wait to see what crap is created for next year. Are the scalpers already creating automated buy bots to get the first 20000 next yr? Maybe all resales should go through the Dept of Mutant Box offices. And BTW, you can just forget about any notion of 'please don't buy first round tickets if you can afford higher'. Bit of a joke before; absurd now.

[essjay]

BLM has no desire to cap the event; lost revenue and all - the mighty $$$ trumps all rhetoric.

If I understand the story correctly, the cap is part of a 5-yr contract that is on its last year. So, BLM did have a desire to cap the event as a negotiating element when the contract was made 5 yrs ago.

Also, its not just the BLM, there is also a ton of infrastructure and support for a city that size. It sold out a month before the event - that may not be enough time to come up with cops, emts, porto service, volunteers etc to support another 10,000 people.

[weather man]

Don't you think it likely that Marion G. Cooked up the whole thing as part of the "Social Experiment", for snitz'n'giggle, in some drunken stupor at an artfuck gallery opening du jour in SF over a $1.00 bet?

The 'speriment tells me:
-The event will sell out next year within a week or two.
-The tier system in its present fashion will not survive. The "We need money NOW to produce the event so we'll sell some cheap tickets early" motivation will be eliminated with the early sellout.

[oneeyeddick]

Those limited "chrismas gift" tickets are gonna sell out in seconds this year.

[Clar-i-ty]

Oh woe to me. It's obviously a conspiracy directly aimed at me. They just don't want me on the Playa. I'm just too damn special, and truly understand the event far more than those evil overlords who created and produced it for 24 years. They just don't understand who I am, and what my needs are. I need to feel as though the world and the universe have a purpose for me and I can't truly know it if those that don't understand the universe take this away from me.

Oh woe, woe, woe, to me. Alas!

[BBadger]

Those limited "chrismas gift" tickets are gonna sell out in seconds this year.

Nah, I bet everything plays out nearly exactly the same as it did this year. People won't learn or change habits.

[The CO]

So, what other conspiracies do you follow? I like the one about the world ending. Or the one where the government is trying to kill us all so they can make more money from us. Or the one where the socialists want to keep everyting for themselves.

So which is your favorite?

[junglesmacks]

I'm hoping this thread is tongue in cheek. I know (think/hope) you're smarter than this, Token..

[Token]

I'm hoping this thread is tongue in cheek. I know (think/hope) you're smarter than this, Token..

Nope. Genuine trolling! Lets call it what it is.

What fuels this conspiracy theory of mine, despite the colorful presentation, is the feeling I get when I reflect on past population density and its disconnect with the afterburn reports. 2007 stands out in my mind, Green Man. That year it felt like we were well past 60k in attendance by the end of the week.

I'm sure the org has some accounting method in place to report ticket sales to the BLM however not having a counting method at gate makes me raise an eyebrow.

The org comment that they voluntarily exercised their right to end ticket sales suggests to me that there may not have been direct input from the BLM on this matter. Its a boilerplate permit based on the 2006 original.

I have read the permit stipulations and each year of the permit raises the cap 6%. If the cap is exceeded, the org enacts the contingency plan and adds two more streets. Not exactly rocket science.

Last year had an official population of 51.5k. 6% growth should have brought it to ~ 55k and anything above that should trigger the contingency plan, i.e. More roads and blue boxes.

I feel good about the plausibility of my conspiracy.

[Clar-i-ty]

I think its a conspiracy to legitimate organized whining. Oh wait, that almost fits in your theory of social experiment.

[ygmir]

seems, if there is a cap on attendees, it's a hard number, extra streets or no.
And, so, it might make sense, they'd only sell so many tickets, even accounting for folks who end up not making it.
and, with the debacle of the early sales, and the ginormous sucking up of those tiers, one could see how they'd reach the end of "available tickets".

I do love conspiracies, though.....
So, I think Congress pressured "The Hat" into it, so, they can run on a "Burning is your right and entitlement" platform.

[Rice]

The BRC population is constantly tracked at the gate...

[jkisha]

Oh woe to me. It's obviously a conspiracy directly aimed at me. They just don't want me on the Playa. I'm just too damn special, and truly understand the event far more than those evil overlords who created and produced it for 24 years. They just don't understand who I am, and what my needs are. I need to feel as though the world and the universe have a purpose for me and I can't truly know it if those that don't understand the universe take this away from me.

Oh woe, woe, woe, to me. Alas!

+1

[jkisha]

So, what other conspiracies do you follow? I like the one about the world ending. Or the one where the government is trying to kill us all so they can make more money from us. Or the one where the socialists want to keep everyting for themselves.

So which is your favorite?

+1

[jkisha]

I thought I read something somewhere recently that said that BLM does their own count independent of BMORG. I didn't pay it much heed at the time; and of course you can never find it again when you need to site it. But my inclination is to believe it was a credible source or I wouldn't have even remembered reading it.

I'm sure the org has some accounting method in place to report ticket sales to the BLM however not having a counting method at gate makes me raise an eyebrow.

[Ugly Dougly]

Don't look so surprised. Social engineering has always been at the core of Burning Man - read some of Larry's thoughts, especially early on.

Back when a ticket could be had for "walking around money", and the population was 10,000 and growing, everyone was concerned that attendance would grow every year and that Burning Man would become something it wasn't intended to be.

It didn't take too much imagination to predict that ticket prices would go up in order to keep the population numbers relatively low, and to take care of infrastructure... but the idea of extra money coming in, and a BLM to blame for everything, was obviously too tempting.

So at this stage, seeing how the Burn is becoming an institution rather than an alternative, maybe somebody is inspired to encourage alternatives to the official burn, which was intended as an alternative in the first place.

[theCryptofishist]

BLM has no desire to cap the event; lost revenue and all - the mighty $$$ trumps all rhetoric.

If I understand the story correctly, the cap is part of a 5-yr contract that is on its last year. So, BLM did have a desire to cap the event as a negotiating element when the contract was made 5 yrs ago.

You are a little off. Last contract ended last year, but the new one was not ready to put in place in time for this year, so they are working on a one-year permit. So they are being extra-careful not to violate the stipulations because they'd like to be there in 2012, 2013, 20...

[jkisha]

Is this an actual "one year permit" and then they will be granted a new "five year permit"? Or will this count as the first year of the five year permit when it is finally approved?

BLM has no desire to cap the event; lost revenue and all - the mighty $$$ trumps all rhetoric.

If I understand the story correctly, the cap is part of a 5-yr contract that is on its last year. So, BLM did have a desire to cap the event as a negotiating element when the contract was made 5 yrs ago.

You are a little off. Last contract ended last year, but the new one was not ready to put in place in time for this year, so they are working on a one-year permit. So they are being extra-careful not to violate the stipulations because they'd like to be there in 2012, 2013, 20...

[theCryptofishist]

The BRC population is constantly tracked at the gate...

True.
Having had a husband with a radio (the kind that people in the volunteer corps used to talk to each other and find each other at need), I can well remember hearing the population count annonced over it two or three times a day. I've heard that BLM keeps its own count as well, and I have to think that too much descrepancy would be an issue for subsequent permits.

[theCryptofishist]

Is this an actual "one year permit" and then they will be granted a new "five year permit"? Or will this count as the first year of the five year permit when it is finally approved?

Four more years after this is what I"ve heard. But I am by no means someone who would know, just someone who pays some attention to these matter because of my interest in the NEPA process.

[theCryptofishist]

Mostly I think it is a case of poor or thoughtless organization.

If "you/it" plan to cap ticket sales, say so at the beginning, up front and on top, and keep a counter. Anything else screams ticket master or stoner coordination, or yes, perhaps bar room wager. I have yet to see any reason why it was handled vi rumor and bomb drop. Some of us actually work for a living or actually producing art and don't have time to spend every day tracking Burn rumors or page 3 hints... and yes, i get some of the list emails.

...

[Token]

http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/wfo/blm_ ... g_man.html

It's all there for the reading.

The BORG asked for a cap of 50000 in their operating plan.

They got a cap of 50000 in the permit.

It's not like they didn't know the # of folks last year, they made a choice to ask for less.

[weather man]

http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/wfo/blm_information/nepa0/recreation/burning_man.html

It's all there for the reading.

The BORG asked for a cap of 50000 in their operating plan.

They got a cap of 50000 in the permit.

It's not like they didn't know the # of folks last year, they made a choice to ask for less.

I think you misread. They can have WAY more this year.
On the 2011 permit, 50K is the targeted average. Last year it was the max.
20K on Monday and 80K on Friday = 50K Average.
I posted a link on another thread to 2008 numbers. Max pop was a few short of 50K, just short of being in violation of the 2008 permit, but the AVG was only ~38K

[nuclear rabbit]

LOUD NOISES! TICKETS RAWRRRGHGHHHHHHHH



See the people who were concerned enough about going to burning man to buy their tickets in the first 7 months they were available out there!

[Token]

http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/wfo/blm_information/nepa0/recreation/burning_man.html

It's all there for the reading.

The BORG asked for a cap of 50000 in their operating plan.

They got a cap of 50000 in the permit.

It's not like they didn't know the # of folks last year, they made a choice to ask for less.

I think you misread. They can have WAY more this year.
On the 2011 permit, 50K is the targeted average. Last year it was the max.
20K on Monday and 80K on Friday = 50K Average.
I posted a link on another thread to 2008 numbers. Max pop was a few short of 50K, just short of being in violation of the 2008 permit, but the AVG was only ~38K

De Nada. It specifically says 50K per day, not an average over the duration. In the plan, under population growth.

Plus, 2008 was under the +6% rule of the five year permit. 2007 was packed.

[Eric]

2007 stands out in my mind, Green Man. That year it felt like we were well past 60k in attendance by the end of the week.

It "felt" like we were past it? Really? Because last year I was right on the Esplanade (and I mean On It- our RV had maybe 10-15 feet between us & the Esplanade with nothing in between) and it didn't feel at all like we had over 50,000 people to me. It actually seemed really calm, like 40 thou or so. Of course, I didn't tear the stubs off the tickets and actually count them, but it sure felt like less people.

Therefore, by your standards of what we "feel" being as good as a BLM required accurate count, we were way down last year.

So my conspiracy is that they cut off ticket sales this year to hide the fact that the event is dwindling in popularity & to try to recreate the earlier interest in it.

[nuclear rabbit]

So my conspiracy is that they cut off ticket sales this year to hide the fact that the event is dwindling in popularity & to try to recreate the earlier interest in it.

Woaaaahhhhhhhh

[ygmir]

Don't I remember two extra streets being added last year? might also have spread the population out some.

[essjay]

http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/wfo/blm_information/nepa0/recreation/burning_man.html

It's all there for the reading.

The BORG asked for a cap of 50000 in their operating plan.

They got a cap of 50000 in the permit.

It's not like they didn't know the # of folks last year, they made a choice to ask for less.

I think you misread. They can have WAY more this year.
On the 2011 permit, 50K is the targeted average. Last year it was the max.
20K on Monday and 80K on Friday = 50K Average.
I posted a link on another thread to 2008 numbers. Max pop was a few short of 50K, just short of being in violation of the 2008 permit, but the AVG was only ~38K

De Nada. It specifically says 50K per day, not an average over the duration. In the plan, under population growth.

Plus, 2008 was under the +6% rule of the five year permit. 2007 was packed.

I think weather man is correct. If you look at the two documents - you are quoting the "Permit Decision" for the 50,000 cap. Following that, was the document "Permit Stipulations", which purpose is to clarify and expand on the "Permit Decision" document. The "Permit Stipulations" further clarifies the statements of the 50,000 cap in the Permit Decision by explaining that it means: that "(BRC) is required to manage its advance ticket sales and on-site ticket sales in such a manner that the safety infrastructural resources of the event, which are designed to handle an average of 50,000 participants per day for the eight-day event, . . . "

So, I think weather man is correct in that we can have an attendance of 75,000+ on Fri. & Sat. due to the fact that there are only 20-30,000 people on the playa Mon & Tues. The BLM is just concerned that the infrastructure is in place to handle the average attendance throughout the week (enough portos, etc.).