when friend turns scalper

Re: when friend turns scalper

Postby Igneouss » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:41 pm

capjbadger wrote:
Igneouss wrote:
While BM has a non-monetary economy inside the event, it is by no means any kind of non-profit operation. Don't be deluded. The Org stands to make millions on profit for the 3rd or 4th year in a row. And the Org is and 'LLC'. It is a chartered and licensed for profit enterprise. Period.

snip

3) Decision NOT to charter as a 503(c) corporation. Non profit status saves lots of money on taxes. There are only 2 reasons why they would not do this. a) they fear disclosure and/or b) they fear having a borad of directors.

Umm... they just converted to a non-profit this last friday. Pay attention Ig. :roll:

-Badger


Still looking for some evidence of this. Is it possible that you meant (or heard about) the newly formed art non-profit that has been announced on the web site?
Several people here have stated that BM is either currently a non-profit, or is about to become a non-profit...
I hope one of you is correct...
But...
Can anyone link me to some non hear-say evidence?

Thanks
Basic b/e analysis:
2005 $243K
06 $855K
07 $1.0M
08 $1.1M
09 $0
10 $1.1M
11 $1.2M
12 $1.2M
That’s $6.8M that thousands of volunteers deserve to know about. Capitalism is alive at BM. Tickets are the commodity. Others have estimated higher profits.
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Re: when friend turns scalper

Postby waywardvirtuoso » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:03 pm

ok, this isn't friend turned scalper, but i responded to a CL add where they were listed for face value (lower than $360 each) and now she's all "would you be willing to pay more?" I told her I'd pay as much as $380 a ticket and now I'm on hold. I think she's seeing how much she can get.

I totally get it... it's a lot of money for some people. The desire to make a profit is strong. But dude! The suspense is killing me!! I can't afford nor am I willing to pay more than what I'd have paid at the gate or thru the BM website.

*grumble grumble*
if we look too close at the path, we can not see the sky.
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Re: when friend turns scalper

Postby portaplaya » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:10 pm

Are you ready for a link overload, doubter?

Larry's speech: http://bm.tribe.net/thread/626f1022-e90 ... fb3d3bb813
Report from Sept 2010: http://blog.burningman.com/2010/09/even ... f-the-man/

The five year plan starts with this: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 73793.html
More about this first step: http://laughingsquid.com/the-burning-ma ... it-entity/

What to know why they did not create a non-profit back in the day? Afterburn 2010 report: http://afterburn.burningman.com/10/org/ ... cture.html (by the way, here is your transparency on how much money the boardmembers get.)

Why am I so mad about your stance? I feel like you have not tried to read anything. It galls me that someone bitches about transparency and accountability and they don't read the fucking Afterburn reports. Geez!
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Re: when friend turns scalper

Postby jkisha » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:41 pm

I don't have any links, but I heard it straight from Larry Harvey's lips.
Igneouss wrote:
capjbadger wrote:
Igneouss wrote:
While BM has a non-monetary economy inside the event, it is by no means any kind of non-profit operation. Don't be deluded. The Org stands to make millions on profit for the 3rd or 4th year in a row. And the Org is and 'LLC'. It is a chartered and licensed for profit enterprise. Period.

snip

3) Decision NOT to charter as a 503(c) corporation. Non profit status saves lots of money on taxes. There are only 2 reasons why they would not do this. a) they fear disclosure and/or b) they fear having a borad of directors.

Umm... they just converted to a non-profit this last friday. Pay attention Ig. :roll:

-Badger


Still looking for some evidence of this. Is it possible that you meant (or heard about) the newly formed art non-profit that has been announced on the web site?
Several people here have stated that BM is either currently a non-profit, or is about to become a non-profit...
I hope one of you is correct...
But...
Can anyone link me to some non hear-say evidence?

Thanks
JK
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Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
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Re: when friend turns scalper

Postby Playa Hater » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:50 am

Hearsay? Its on the front page of the BM website. Or go to http://www.burningmanproject.org
Its been plastered everywhere and has been talked about publicly for well over a year through newsletters, message forums, websites, facebook, etc...

Apparentlly you aren't looking that hard because its basically everywhere that has anything to do with Burning Man. :roll:
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Re: when friend turns scalper

Postby Igneouss » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:04 am

There sure are a lot of confused people on this issue which is one reason I think it's important.

Some comments from the responses above:
Playa Hater: the burning man project is NOT Burning Man they are seprate organizations. I am talking about Burning Man and not about the burning man project.
portaplaya: I clicked on your link to the 2010 afterburn report which I have read previously. Contrary to your statement it seems to indicate that the LLC is against non-profit status. It also does not discuss compensation. It does mention that anyone who leaves gets no more than 20k severence. But that's all I see. One of your other links talks about the burning man project which is not Burning Man. It is a different organization. Related for sure but it's not Burning Man. This seems to confuse a lot of people. The Laughing squid articles is also about the project and not Burning Man itself.

All: yes, Larry has talked about non profit status. This is obviously a good thing in my opinion. However, the 2010 afterburn report seems to contradict him.

The sense I have is that the Org was headed toward NP status and then stopped the process. From the 2010 report:
"Nonprofit status, however, is a tax category, and strict rules apply to what is called "self dealing". This means that a nonprofit entity cannot exist for the purpose of enriching its directors. We had no difficulty with this concept. None of us have been particularly financially enriched by this enterprise. Our problem, however, was that we could not afford to work at guiding and creating Burning Man without being paid.

The Project requires a yearlong effort and, for many of us, a normal workweek often exceeds forty hours. We could have stayed on as hired managers of a nonprofit and ceded ultimate authority those who could be deemed "disinterested", but we are a society of activists who are very interested in guiding the essential mission and purpose of Burning Man. A governing board made up of non-participants who are detached from the day-to-day toil of creating a community seemed inappropriate."


Hmmmmm
Basic b/e analysis:
2005 $243K
06 $855K
07 $1.0M
08 $1.1M
09 $0
10 $1.1M
11 $1.2M
12 $1.2M
That’s $6.8M that thousands of volunteers deserve to know about. Capitalism is alive at BM. Tickets are the commodity. Others have estimated higher profits.
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Re: when friend turns scalper

Postby portaplaya » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:26 am

Igneouss wrote:portaplaya: I clicked on your link to the 2010 afterburn report which I have read previously. Contrary to your statement it seems to indicate that the LLC is against non-profit status. I


Again, I said that the Afterburn 2010 report explained why they did not become a non-profit back when the LLC was formed and why, at that time, they could not form a non-profit. That's a history lesson, not the current plan. Further, it is clear that their goal was to create a "not-profit" organization, since a non-profit was not going to work for them. There is no requirement that an LLC make a profit.

As for "that's the Burning Man Project, not Burning Man": yeah, we know. The multi-year plan is to get this non-profit started and then to transfer the operation and assets of Burning Man from Black Rock City LLC to The Burning Man Project. First step is to create the entity.
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