when friend turns scalper

[silkkat813]

I am so pissed right now I had to post for support.

A "friend", a girl I've known 3 years and has been to the playa twice, told me the other night that she plans to sell her pair of tickets for $1000. I thought it was a joke at first cause she was drunk. I said something like "well that is shitty" and she started ranting about ethics and she doesn't care cause she needs the money. She moved to a new city to look for a job while her husband is still in their last city for a few more months. She said she needs the money to fly back and see him once a month until he can move here so she can stay faithful. Not for food or bills. Basically she needs to money to fuck her husband.

The next morning, she tells me another of our friends found her a deal where 2 people need a ride from Vegas and a camp in exchange for 2 free tickets. I asked "but do you still plan to sell your tickets for $1000?" She said yes and this is better cause she can still see her husband and go to the playa. She said she found someone willing to pay the $1000. I asked "a newbie?" She said "oh such a newbie!" and something about the girl not knowing much about Burning Man. I replied "great way to take advantage of newbies. I'm sorry but I think that is horrible to sell for that price. It has nothing to do with ethics. It is un-Burner like." Then I walked out.

The Scalper is staying with the same friend I am staying with until I go to the playa. He isn't saying much cause her husband is his best friend, but I know he is upset. I told his girlfriend, a Burner friend of mine, and she is pissed off too. I might be overreacting but I think if she does sell them for $1000, it ends the friendship.

This sell-out thing has gotten ugly.

[shroom]

It does sound crappy. Sorry to hear that. If I had tickets this year I'd sell them for what I paid for them.

[perfectinsanity]

Awwwwwww.
*(hugs)*

Yes....it does suck terribly when you have built up a high opinion of someone and then they do something to demolish it....
Actually I have a lot of experience with this emotion. I organize these like...well...kind of underground outdoor dance parties in Cali...they arent super big or anything...around 300 people sometimes more sometimes less....anyway....There is no way to pull of a party without help and support and when I got into the organizing of the event I just instantly assumed that all my friends would be 100% down to work really hard and make the party amazing because we are all equally into the music and the dancing under the moon type of stuff. But yeah...this was never the case...and it made me understand something important....
one, two, or three years isnt really a long time to get to know someone...especially when you mostly see that person in social setting...and
A person can be your best friend and have your back and everything, but once money gets into the picture, it can really distort the perspective.

The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to not get upset. Everyone gets to choose their own values and how to life their lives. If you try to hold your friends to the same high standards that you hold yourself to it never ends well. Take it from me...as I have done this WAY too many times.


And hey...if you REALLY feel that strongly about the issue....
just mother fucking steal those tickets and send them to meeeeeeee ^____^

[geney]

what makes someone a burner? your friend has been twice, she knows what it is all about. she needs the money so will sell it for a small profit...nothing wrong with that. she made a concious decision on what is more important, life in our economy or living on a high horse. i am looking for tickets with absolutely no luck, but i wouldn't think badly of her because you need to understand some peoples situation.

what i do hate are the people who never been to burningman, think it is just one big party...then now they see the opportunity to to profiteer at others expense.

so...can i get your friends number contact info? j/k

now back to ticket wishing...

[Supakitten]

shity indeed. Greed does a funny thing to a person. I had a similar issue. A friend who had never gone before decided to go in June, and bought his ticket. I have been planning on going, but had not yet bought my ticket because I wasn't yet sure if i could afford the time off. He changed his mind about going, and said he'd give me his ticket (before they sold out). But I insisted he not do so yet, he might change his mind. (he tends to do that) but if he decides to not go later I would buy it off him.

By the time I worked enough to save the money to buy a ticket they sold out. Bummer deal yes....but I aint whining. He changed his mind again and said he didn't think he was going again. Bummer, still wanted him to go and experience the burn. ....but if not I was desperately looking to buy a ticket so if he wanted to sell it I would buy it. I find out later he sold it for almost a $1000.

not so much annoyed that he didn't sell it to me, his friend. but greed got to him and screwed someone over and sold it for 3 times of what it was worth. he doesn't even have a 'sob' story about needing the money, he's just fine. but, it was his ticket to do what he wanted with i suppose. I could use a extra $1000 badly, but I still need to sleep at night and couldn't accept more money than a ticket is worth...especially a BM ticket.

[silkkat813]

I could use a extra $1000 badly, but I still need to sleep at night and couldn't accept more money than a ticket is worth...especially a BM ticket.

That would be my problem. I would feel too guilty. I sold my extra ticket months ago for $150 to a friend who has had a tough year. I would have gifted it to her if I was able to afford to. To me, that is what Burners do. We help our community, not try to f%&@ it over.

I need to just let this go and not be bothered. But I think of all the deserving Burners that could use those tickets. And I know that not all my friends need to share my beliefs, but I expect my Burner friends to believe in the Burner principles.

Decommmodification: "...We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation..." I know scalping is not a commercial transaction, but it is exploitation.


ujjayi breaths.... ujjayi breaths...

[Playa Hater]

what makes someone a burner? your friend has been twice, she knows what it is all about. she needs the money so will sell it for a small profit...nothing wrong with that. she made a concious decision on what is more important, life in our economy or living on a high horse. i am looking for tickets with absolutely no luck, but i wouldn't think badly of her because you need to understand some peoples situation.

what i do hate are the people who never been to burningman, think it is just one big party...then now they see the opportunity to to profiteer at others expense.

so...can i get your friends number contact info? j/k

now back to ticket wishing...

I disagree, i see a few things wrong with it if she is conciously ripping of a virgin burner and rediculing them on how uneducated they are because they are paying for her over priced tickets. And to say she made a desicion on what was more important, its not like we are talking about how she was starving and had to buy food, or she was about to lose her house. The chick can't stay faithful without flying back to bang her boyfriend. But then on top of it she wants the best of both worlds. She wants to sell her tickets for profit and then scoop up some free tickets to go to the burn. On top of it all it goes against the idea and the principals of the event. So I dunno I mean its just my opinion, and people have the right to do whatever they want to do. It definitely seems a bit shady though.

[nuclear rabbit]

what makes someone a burner? your friend has been twice, she knows what it is all about. she needs the money so will sell it for a small profit...nothing wrong with that. she made a concious decision on what is more important, life in our economy or living on a high horse. i am looking for tickets with absolutely no luck, but i wouldn't think badly of her because you need to understand some peoples situation.

what i do hate are the people who never been to burningman, think it is just one big party...then now they see the opportunity to to profiteer at others expense.

so...can i get your friends number contact info? j/k

now back to ticket wishing...

You don't get it.

[Dr Helix]

I respectfullyt disagree with those who are angry when tickets are sold at above face value. A ticket is a commodity, just like anything else. The value of it fluctuates based on supply and demand. If you really think about it, BMORG did the same thing with the tiered ticket program. Why didn't they offer tickets at one set price? Because they know as less and less tickets are available, they are more and more valuable and can be sold for a higher price. This is what's happening now in the open market. The VALUE of the ticket is much higher because there are very few tickets available and many poeple who still want one. Now having said all that, I too, would not sell a ticket for above face value. But that's my choice, just like the OP made the choice to sell her ticket for more. And found someone who was willing to pay. That's Capitalism folks.

[Playa Hater]

Scalp your tickets at any other event. But it is looked down upon when it comes to BM. Its a very simple concept. Its beyond me that some people just do not get it.

Also in the case of this girl who apparently doesn't have any money and must sell her tickets to be able to bang her boyfriend to stay faithful, why is it you can sell your tickets for profit but then take the free tickets to be able to still go to BM? A ticket is the smallest expense when it comes to BM. How is it she can afford to live in the desert for a week if she has no money and is selling her ticket to see her BF?

Some people...

[shroom]

I could use a extra $1000 badly, but I still need to sleep at night and couldn't accept more money than a ticket is worth...especially a BM ticket.

same here!

[lucky.bastard]

no lessons in morality here just wanted to say thank you to all the people who give their time, money and energy to make this event happen

[theCryptofishist]

I'm very interested in the fact that her husband got changed into her "boyfriend" in the minds of one or two of the repsondents. What it looks like to me is that they are "downgrading" her relationship status because they don't approve of her behavior. I agree on the have her cake and eat it too analysis of selling and getting more free, but I find it intriguing that her husband is now her boyfriend. I don't know that I would think it was okay if he was her husband but not if he were her boyfriend, but I'm not sure I wouldn't either.

[Playa Hater]

I apologise for somehow going from husband to boyfriend, it was unintentional but doesn't change the point in the slightest. I certainly was not downgrading their relationship status because I do not approve of the situation. It was a simple mistake on my part. But I think that is kind of irrelivant anyhow. I think the point remains the same. Ifully understand wanting to go see a partner wether its a husband or wife, boyfriend or girlfriend. That doesn't bother me. But to say I don't have money and then try and sell for profit all the while trying to score free tickets to still go... If you have no money to see your husband how do you plan on surviving in the desert for a week even if you got the free tickets. That being said, the whole "I don't have money to see my husband" then just becomes a bullshit story to me.

[theCryptofishist]

I'm sorry if it seemed like I went after you. I thought that this might be a Freudian slip and if it were, I wondered what it meant if it were. For me the question was an academic one, not a moral one.

[Playa Hater]

Understood. It was my mistake. I had no intentions on seeming like I was trying to downgrade anyones relationship.

[BBadger]

I'm very interested in the fact that her husband got changed into her "boyfriend" in the minds of one or two of the repsondents. What it looks like to me is that they are "downgrading" her relationship status because they don't approve of her behavior. I agree on the have her cake and eat it too analysis of selling and getting more free, but I find it intriguing that her husband is now her boyfriend. I don't know that I would think it was okay if he was her husband but not if he were her boyfriend, but I'm not sure I wouldn't either.

It is interesting. I think it comes from some expectation that, being married, the husband would/could bring up his convictions with respect to a "moral" issue such as selling above face value. This doesn't mean it can't happen with a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship either, but it just seems like they would be more on the same page with respect to such a matter.

[MrMullen]

I have to admit, I am on the fence about stuff like this. One thing is very clear, you don't know this person. You might have known her for 3 years and she has been to Burning Man twice, but it is fairly clear, you don't know her, and neither do your friends. Which is not your fault, we sometimes think we know people, but then they do stuff like this and we figure out, 'Oh wow, I don't know them'. We all have had to think twice about friendships with many of our friends because of actions they have done.

Some one in our camp last year sold their ticket for a slight profit and being the Silver Back Burner of the camp, I was pissed and told my wife I would have nothing to do with them anymore. Now that I am seeing $210 tickets going for $600, I feel I would be challenged if I had to sell my wife's and my tickets. Prices are getting at levels where they will challenge a many good Burners ethics. I am afraid stories like this will be many in the future.

[geney]

what makes someone a burner? your friend has been twice, she knows what it is all about. she needs the money so will sell it for a small profit...nothing wrong with that. she made a concious decision on what is more important, life in our economy or living on a high horse. i am looking for tickets with absolutely no luck, but i wouldn't think badly of her because you need to understand some peoples situation.

what i do hate are the people who never been to burningman, think it is just one big party...then now they see the opportunity to to profiteer at others expense.

so...can i get your friends number contact info? j/k

now back to ticket wishing...

You don't get it.

i guess i don't and never will...this is what i do get.

- some in the 'community' can be very judgmental and has no issues making opinions with only one side of the story.
- Black Rock City LLC is a for profit organization yet only ones anyone want to flame are those that don't follow the burner philosophy of barter only. Going low with $300 x 50,000 is $15 mil.
- Burning Man thrives on volunteers yet doesn't offer many/most of the volunteers tickets; every dollar counts for profiteering.
- i would like to think only those in here are people without tickets so many are upset with the profiteering. however there are many with no lives and just troll these forums ripping on those who don't have tickets.
- NONE OF US ARE BETTER PEOPLE THAN SCALPERS JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T SCALP BURNING MAN TICKETS!!!

[HoneyInTheHeart]

Silkkat813,

Your post draws me to Compassion for myself and you and your nearly-ex friend, along with reminders of my own shortcomings.
I'm willing to pay more than face-value for a ticket...am I fallen from grace already ?

Would it be within the bounds of radical acceptance to be at peace with the proposition that many of us are not fully in integrity with all burner principles ?
She is setting up her own Burn, and will stand before the Man, and amongst us at the Temple with her own heart and mind.

I think the whole Burner principles thing is about the community that exists among those of us who aspire to hold them.
I dig the energy at my Camp where folks get it, and strive to keep it.
We fail sometimes, and we begin again.
Bless those hardy souls who perfect their integrity.

Also, I've learned, and you may remember, that people who get pissed off at other people...I know I DO...are inflamed as much with their own fear and vulnerability as with the potential damage that may occur.
Damage heals.
Transgression and Transgressors will be healed by community...not by shame and ostracism...and sufficient unto each day is its own evil.

I hope you can bring forgiveness of your possibly-ex-friend to the Playa.....un-forgiveness enshrines a part of myself that cannot find peace without the past being different or made whole again...
That part of me gets stuck in the past. I must dwell there whole, or leave part of myself behind.

Forgiveness, Radical Acceptance, isn't that the way forward ?

Leave no fragment of your soul behind when you come to the Playa, and no Fragment of the Alternate Reality behind when you return to it.

Keep it in balance.

Advice for Me for sure, and maybe for others.

In Love and Service,

Honey

[capjbadger]

i guess i don't and never will...this is what i do get.

- some in the 'community' can be very judgmental and has no issues making opinions with only one side of the story.

Actually what you're seeing is we have no issues with calling people on their bullshit.

- Black Rock City LLC is a for profit organization yet only ones anyone want to flame are those that don't follow the burner philosophy of barter only. Going low with $300 x 50,000 is $15 mil.

BLM, Portapotties, EMS, LEOs, etc cost money and they don't take barter. BMORG must make money to pay them or else you have no event to go to. Look at the afterburn reports to see where the money goes.
Oh yeah, BTW, the Org just converted to NON-PROFIT this last Friday. Pay attention.

- Burning Man thrives on volunteers yet doesn't offer many/most of the volunteers tickets; every dollar counts for profiteering.

Expecting to get paid in tickets misses the whole point of being a volunteer.

- i would like to think only those in here are people without tickets so many are upset with the profiteering. however there are many with no lives and just troll these forums ripping on those who don't have tickets.

No, we rip on those that come in whining. You'll notice that those that are on the ball and working to get tickets get a much more supportive response.

- NONE OF US ARE BETTER PEOPLE THAN SCALPERS JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T SCALP BURNING MAN TICKETS!!!

YES WE ARE. Scalpers profit from no labor of their own. Such leaches are not welcome in this community. (Drink!)

-Badger

[gyre]

Nothing pisses me off more than saying that tickets are pay for volunteering.

That is totally full of shit.
Even a rough calculation of cost to available time on the playa shows that a ticket is only recognition of the cost involved, and a courtesy.


I have had to skip more than one burn because I couldn't get a ticket.
I don't do any shifts at all on those years.

A ticket wouldn't bring me to the break even point on time, much less a discounted one.

[nuclear rabbit]

what makes someone a burner? your friend has been twice, she knows what it is all about. she needs the money so will sell it for a small profit...nothing wrong with that. she made a concious decision on what is more important, life in our economy or living on a high horse. i am looking for tickets with absolutely no luck, but i wouldn't think badly of her because you need to understand some peoples situation.

what i do hate are the people who never been to burningman, think it is just one big party...then now they see the opportunity to to profiteer at others expense.

so...can i get your friends number contact info? j/k

now back to ticket wishing...

You don't get it.

i guess i don't and never will...this is what i do get.

- some in the 'community' can be very judgmental and has no issues making opinions with only one side of the story.
- Black Rock City LLC is a for profit organization yet only ones anyone want to flame are those that don't follow the burner philosophy of barter only. Going low with $300 x 50,000 is $15 mil.
- Burning Man thrives on volunteers yet doesn't offer many/most of the volunteers tickets; every dollar counts for profiteering.
- i would like to think only those in here are people without tickets so many are upset with the profiteering. however there are many with no lives and just troll these forums ripping on those who don't have tickets.
- NONE OF US ARE BETTER PEOPLE THAN SCALPERS JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T SCALP BURNING MAN TICKETS!!!

I'm going to stand with my original point.

[thirt33n]

possible theoretical situation:

got tickets on first day..

life just took a nose dive.
car that was to carry me to the playa....$600 bill.
40 year old physical turns up a rare condition that, even WITH insurance, means thousands of dollars...

among life's other challenges in a tough economy certain unplanned events can bring desperation.

Not much different than thousands of you. A long time resident of Black Rock City from the hard pack days of 245* and Midships to 4:05 and Fairlane....sharing a core feeling taught to me by the many wonderful San Diego burners...being an advocate for "getting it"...from shifts at center camp greeters and gifting many performances and hand made items.....spending thousands on my journeys to this city and loving every minute of it yet knowing that there are people somewhere in this hierarchy profiting up above the 10 principles...

I thought about it. It would be a larger than normal gift in return...from my city that just at the right time...when i needed it most in life....threw me a rope. a financial rope to grab on to and maybe keep me out of the pits of debt. ...no, i wouldn't ask too much over face value and these people would see it as a sort of gift too...

i would rationalize it like that....and there's really nothing anyone can say that would make me feel guilty.

not saying i'm more entitled
not saying i side with true "scalpers"
not saying that the chick who sold her tickets for $1000 and then accepted gift ticket isn't an annoying human.
just saying that there are situation where I believe the gift of finance can be returned to the resident...so stick a cork in it

....i'm going anyway. hello debt.

[theCryptofishist]

...Black Rock City LLC is a for profit organization...

I don't know what you mean by "a for profit organization" but one way or another the money is plowed back into the party. Being a 401 (3)(c) organization is a lot of work and a lot of following the government's rules and in the end not much of an indication of virtue.

[Chiroptera]

Sorry- but if she has been twice- she is a newbie! Hope you find some real friends and a real ticket!

[geney]

...Black Rock City LLC is a for profit organization...

I don't know what you mean by "a for profit organization" but one way or another the money is plowed back into the party. Being a 401 (3)(c) organization is a lot of work and a lot of following the government's rules and in the end not much of an indication of virtue.

Maybe misstating a for profit organization, but I have always suspected someone is making a ton of money. No one else is curious on how 41% of the expenditures goes to people payroll? Now if everyone made $50k that is only roughly 145 people. Without transparency we will never know how much the people on the top make.

Here is a small tidbit from the financials:

Expense Categories that include both Event-related and Organizational:
Payroll
7,283,000

Total Expenditures - 2010
17,515,083

[jkisha]

You know what? I don't care and why you would eludes me.

[theCryptofishist]

I've read the afterburns. Either this is a really good party and the people who run it deserve a living wage in one of the most expensive cities in the country, or it's not a good party and you don't want to go and don't need a ticket.
As for who's making a killing on this? Bruno. Walmart. Twin City Surplus. Goodwill. Home Depot.

[geney]

You know what? I don't care and why you would eludes me.

Actually I don't either, I think the people at the top should make a ton for organizing an event of this size. They took risks, they should get rewarded for it.