2012 scalpfest?

[SnowBlind]

First show in 22 seconds. That's about 5,600 tickets, total.
...
Besides, we know the ticket handling system for Burning Man would never work smoothly enough for this to work.

We all wish Inticketing could sell 5,600 tickets in 22 seconds, scalpers or not.

[portaplaya]

We all wish Inticketing could sell 5,600 tickets in 22 seconds, scalpers or not.

This was Ticketmaster. One could say they have both more practice at this and more infrastructure.

Also of interest, they also have a 4 ticket "per household" limit, like Burning Man. I wonder how that is enforced.

[Playa Hater]

Buy your ticket earlier. Scalping problem solved. Period.

There is the solution. PERIOD. Stop trying to come up with rediculous ideas. BUY YOUR TICKET IN THE FIRST 6 MONTHS. Problem solved. Why is this so hard for people to understand?

Seriously this is a fucking joke. lol

[nuclear rabbit]

Don't worry, next year burning man will be Soooooooo 2011 and no one is going.

[Jackass]

I've already decided next year will suck, I'm not going!

[portaplaya]

Seriously this is a fucking joke. lol

That sentence isn't confusing at all...

[munkycmunkydoo]

(cross posted in an attempt to get people to understand scalpers are not the bogeyman they think they are)

Lets do a little math.

50000 tickets at at average of $300 each =$15,000,000

In order to insure that they control the majority (2/3rds) of tickets, this mythical scalping conglomerate need ten million dollars. TEN MILLION DOLLARS.

Next, you can only by four (4) tickets per credit card. That means they need 8334 credit cards to purchase them, entering each number individually.

Then, they have to buy them all on the first day. Let's call it January 15th.

Now, they have to sit on a TEN MILLION DOLLAR ($10,000,000) investment for the next 8 months. If they try to sell before August, people will not buy them.

Scalpers do not work at long term investments. They want to get a ticket & turn it around @ a profit in the shortest amount of time possible. As in hours. Not days. Not weeks. Not months. Not three-quarters of a year.

Some one that can drop that kind of cash and sit on it for 8 months.... is not a scalper. It's the guy in the $200,000 custom motor coach.

This is a very sound view of the numbers and I think does show how the average scalper would have to put out and sit on a huge capital expenditure. This will keep small time scalpers out of the game. However large scale corporate Ticket Brokers that operate outlets out of every major city regularly put out capital at like numbers for Premium NFL, NBA, and MLB tickets on the first day of sales with every intent of holding them for multiple months (up to 9 in baseball, 10 for basketball) and sell close to the event date. Luxury basketball and baseball tickets also carry a similar or even greater face value than BM tix. In some cases tickets are purchased with a view of lottery chances for All star games, Super Bowl, and various other playoff tickets. Heck some ticket brokers are even publicly traded like CitySide (CIST). Firms of this scale do have the capital and patience to create a small but significant impact on the BM ticket situation next year, and with the sell out BM will be on their radar.

I fully agree scalpers will not bring the end of the world, but they will be more of a factor next year specifically with the first tier tickets. The key is for the community to act responsibly and not rush to Ticketing agencies, be patient and explore here and other avenues first. Like with long running touring bands with a strong community, that tight knit community is what best hinders the scalpers in spite of demand.

Save up the pennies, nickles, and dimes along with all the holiday gift cash and buy a ticket on the first sale day. That is my plan for 2012.

[portaplaya]

Beyonce tickets for four shows in NYC this week sold out in one minute. That was about 5,400 tickets (4 per household limit) for a total of about $650,000. Turn around time for those tickets was a week, since they went on sale only the week before the show. According to the webs, they were going for +100%.

On the other hand, the past couple of years BM has had some tickets available at full price before Xmas (intended as gifts), haven't they? This is well before "opening day". Might be another mechanism that helps the burners.

[Stickygreen]

This is a very sound view of the numbers and I think does show how the average scalper would have to put out and sit on a huge capital expenditure. This will keep small time scalpers out of the game. However large scale corporate Ticket Brokers that operate outlets out of every major city regularly put out capital at like numbers for Premium NFL, NBA, and MLB tickets on the first day of sales with every intent of holding them for multiple months (up to 9 in baseball, 10 for basketball) and sell close to the event date. Luxury basketball and baseball tickets also carry a similar or even greater face value than BM tix. In some cases tickets are purchased with a view of lottery chances for All star games, Super Bowl, and various other playoff tickets. Heck some ticket brokers are even publicly traded like CitySide (CIST). Firms of this scale do have the capital and patience to create a small but significant impact on the BM ticket situation next year, and with the sell out BM will be on their radar.

I fully agree scalpers will not bring the end of the world, but they will be more of a factor next year specifically with the first tier tickets. The key is for the community to act responsibly and not rush to Ticketing agencies, be patient and explore here and other avenues first. Like with long running touring bands with a strong community, that tight knit community is what best hinders the scalpers in spite of demand.

Save up the pennies, nickles, and dimes along with all the holiday gift cash and buy a ticket on the first sale day. That is my plan for 2012.

Munkycmunkydoo is very correct on his view. I live in a city that has a very ferocious scalping market. Our Hockey team has been sold out for the past 20 years plus, the Winter Olympics were held here just 18 months ago, and I saw some HUGE investments in Ticket purchases that were Years ahead of the events. Most Of the time it wasn't Just one large company that purchased all the tickets, (there were a few of them though) It was mostly a number of small to medium sized company's that ate up all the tickets, and then together created that demand vacuum. There are Very large company's all over the world that are willing to lay out cash to profit, in fact that is what business's do.... If you said to someone, Give me a million dollars, and I'll double it in 9 months, I would say Fuck yes! who wouldn't? Is that possible to do with Burning Man tickets, with a reasonable expectation of a return, with minimal risk? who knows, I'm not going to crunch the numbers, cause I'm not in it to profit. I just enjoy a week in the desert, with a bunch of other people. But you can guarantee eventually someone will figure out a formula they can apply to BM, and they will watch the ticket situation very closely. Until it's time to act on there potential investment.


and just for the record I had tickets for 2011 (bought on opening day) Decided to sell cause Burning Man sold out.... (not really, But i like to tell that story to all the jaded old fucks)

[mdmf007]

Why cant Burning Man buy back tickets from potential sellers and have a wait list for ppl wanting to buy tickets after its sold out. They have to ban private ticket sales.

That is exactly the problem: Nevada state law allows the resale of tickets, including resale at a profit. Thus Burning Man cannot ban private ticket sales because the law allows it; people would legally be able to just ignore the event-instituted ban.

But Bman does reserve the right to revoke any ticket.
They could state "Any ticket reported to be part of a third party sale will be canceled" even if the state of NV does allow scalping.
Though, it would be hard to enforce, besides for the fact that it would eliminate the ability to double check if a ticket is real. So then by entering into a third party sale, you could very easily be buying a fake ticket.
The point I'm making is that just because something is legal in a state, doesn't mean that an event, corp, or business has to also allow it. Though, I don't think this whole plan over all would work. I agree that the time and money spent trying to do this buy back program could be a waste of time and money.
But if it were as simple as a person logs on, goes to a "cancel ticket" page, then enters the ticket number to be canceled, gets a confirmation email, then the money gets wired back to their credit card with in 30 days. In the mean time, 1 more ticket pops up for sale as a will call ticket. If you were in need of a ticket, you would have to check back continually to see if any new tickets popped up.

Yet again, you dont quite grasp this. BMAN cannot overrule a state law. Until its illegal, its game on, were only talking about a thousand tickets or so man, look at whats available. A ticket buy back would be great but there will be a margin charged for that as well. Who is going to sit around and do this for free? Events sell out - thats a simple fact. Next year I can guarantee that the even sells out way warlier than this year. Why? People learned their lesson this year.

[red arrow]

the glastonbury festival in the uk has had similar issues for many years now and have adopted a fool proof system that stops so called scalpers (or ticket touts as we call them here) from snapping up loads of tickets from actual attendees and selling them at profit

you need to register on the glastonbury website with your name, address, photo etc before the tickets go on sale.. then when you register you get a number to enter the day the tickets go on sale... if you get one then youre in luck, you can only get one ticket per user and photo is printed on ticket and cannot be used by someone else

you are given the option to pay deposit as well and then the rest a month or two before the event, if you cant make it to the event you can return your ticket and then a month before the festival they put the tickets back on sale (from the many 1000s that were returned by people whos circumstances changed and cannot attend)

works quite well, touts (scalpers) dont get cash and its relatively easy to get a ticket if youre dedicated to going

[red arrow]

photo of glastonbury 'scalper proof' ticket, as outlined above

[AntiM]

Makes gift tickets impossible. It may be fine for a music festival, but not for Burning Man. Also, how much would this increase ticket prices?

[red arrow]

Makes gift tickets impossible. It may be fine for a music festival, but not for Burning Man. Also, how much would this increase ticket prices?

it was merely a suggestion and i am sure there could be a work around for gift tickets, if stopping scalpers comes at the expense of 'gift-tickets' then is it not worth it? perhaps those who are 'radically self-reliant' and want to attend should learn how to radically buy-themselves a ticket? i am sure there are plenty of people who are desperate to go and willing to buy their own tickets. i guess it is a bit shitty not being able to 'gift' a ticket to someone but can you think of a better work around?

i have no idea of the costs.

[junglesmacks]

On the other hand, the past couple of years BM has had some tickets available at full price before Xmas (intended as gifts), haven't they? This is well before "opening day". Might be another mechanism that helps the burners.

No.. they haven't.. and no.. they won't again this year. Shhhhh... it's just a rumor.

[18xbrewer]

Easy way to end all of this.....stop letting people sell there own tickets comic con has 2 times the number of people, but if you can't go and don't want a refund your sol, a ticket means its only good for that person under than name. Is this rough and rude to those that don't know, yes but it's inevitable for tickets. So instead have the people return their tickets to burning man for a return fee and refund and have a waiting list.......to re-issue passes. Easy

*edit to discuss gifting

So people can still gift tickets, but if that person doesn't want to go then they need to get a refund before the cut off date. Otherwise the ticket is only good for that person and if they don't show like for a plane they don't ride.

That would leave me sol this year, but that might be the case anyways and it stops a lot of the bull with vendors getting involved. It's not the system that's broke its the greed that the business can lend to. And if you think scalpers can't buy enough tickets you are an idiot that thinks a drunk bum outside a stadium is the only ticket scalpers have you heard of ticketmasters?!