2012 scalpfest?

[nncoco]

What I am seeing in the secondary ticket market is alarming. People are willing to pay a huge premium for tickets on ebay and other sites. This caught the attention of scalpers and small-time ebay sellers who are licking their chops about the prospect 200+% profits on future events.

If the BLM permit size remains at 50,000 people the event as we know it will never be the same. Future demand will skyrocket as these profiteers and speculators race to buy tickets and shore up supply.

As a citizen of both Black Rock City and the good 'ol USofA I am purposing that we let our voices be heard by the persons in power who manage the Black Rock Desert and plead for a workable compromise that allows for growth while protecting the desert environment.

As someone who has attended Burning Man for over a decade, I can tell you that the number of RV's has increased at a faster rate than the number of attendees. If RV and heavy truck permits were sold, they could lower ticket costs for lower impact Burners and better protect the desert environment.

The impact on the desert of a single responsible person is also very small compared to the impact of a mutant vehicle making pass after pass across the Playa. Their numbers could also be further limited to better protect The Playa. This of course assumes that the permit size is limited to protect the environment and not for some other reason.

[Ugly Dougly]

Welcome to eplaya!

[nncoco]

Thanks. I have been here before under different user names but I forgot my log-in info today.

[jkisha]

Interesting, then I would have assumed you would have read one of the other 20 or so posts already started on this topic rather than starting another new one.

[trilobyte]

Of course, the best way to avoid the scalpfest is to make your plans to get your tickets sooner. This year's unfortunate situation, if nothing else, should hopefully encourage people to re-evaluate their priorities. It starts with the ticket. Tickets have gone on sale in January for the last several years, and I suspect they'll do the same again.

If we're lucky, the BLM will increase the cap. But if not (and next year has the same limit), it will probably take until at least April for the event to sell out. That's plenty of time to avoid the scalpfest.

[nncoco]

Taking over/under bets on April 2012? Fear of scarcity and the power of the profit motive will drive sales at a pace never seen before.

Even hippy burners will buy one ticket for entry and another to "raffle" off to fund the trip.

[junglesmacks]

But if not (and next year has the same limit), it will probably take until at least April for the event to sell out. That's plenty of time to avoid the scalpfest.

Dooodoooweeewoooodoooodooooweeewoooo *insert creepy foreshadowing music here*

[Savannah]

I ain't scared.

[BBadger]

You know nncoco, I have a much better idea: BM is just fine, rather people can just take responsibility for their own poor planning if they don't get a ticket on time (on time meaning 6 months). I have zero interest in diluting the BM experience just to let more people in the gates with "cheaper tickets," especially for people who can barely practice "self-reliance" in real life. If people can't even handle the responsibility of purchasing a ticket for themselves, and accepting/handling the consequences (that's a big factor), maybe they're just playa-stock material, and I think the event has benefited from their absence.

[oneeyeddick]

What I am seeing in the secondary ticket market is alarming. People are willing to pay a huge premium for tickets on ebay and other sites. This caught the attention of scalpers and small-time ebay sellers who are licking their chops about the prospect 200+% profits on future events.

If the BLM permit size remains at 50,000 people the event as we know it will never be the same. Future demand will skyrocket as these profiteers and speculators race to buy tickets and shore up supply.

As a citizen of both Black Rock City and the good 'ol USofA I am purposing that we let our voices be heard by the persons in power who manage the Black Rock Desert and plead for a workable compromise that allows for growth while protecting the desert environment.

As someone who has attended Burning Man for over a decade, I can tell you that the number of RV's has increased at a faster rate than the number of attendees. If RV and heavy truck permits were sold, they could lower ticket costs for lower impact Burners and better protect the desert environment.


The impact on the desert of a single responsible person is also very small compared to the impact of a mutant vehicle making pass after pass across the Playa. Their numbers could also be further limited to better protect The Playa. This of course assumes that the permit size is limited to protect the environment and not for some other reason.

So, what you are trying to say is that you also didn't get a ticket in time and you can't afford an RV even though you have been going for a little while now and you think that lashing out at every little thing you can think of will make you feel better regardless of how convoluted it sounds?

[illy dilly]

Taking over/under bets on April 2012? Fear of scarcity and the power of the profit motive will drive sales at a pace never seen before.

Even hippy burners will buy one ticket for entry and another to "raffle" off to fund the trip.

OK, I'll take the over at May ticket sell out.
I'll bet you two cold beers, but one has to be shared with me! And if I win I'll share 1 with you!


I'm hoping that they beef up the ticket servers for 'ticket launch day' if they crashed this year it will be even worse in 2012.

[The CO]

(cross posted in an attempt to get people to understand scalpers are not the bogeyman they think they are)

Lets do a little math.

50000 tickets at at average of $300 each =$15,000,000

In order to insure that they control the majority (2/3rds) of tickets, this mythical scalping conglomerate need ten million dollars. TEN MILLION DOLLARS.

Next, you can only by four (4) tickets per credit card. That means they need 8334 credit cards to purchase them, entering each number individually.

Then, they have to buy them all on the first day. Let's call it January 15th.

Now, they have to sit on a TEN MILLION DOLLAR ($10,000,000) investment for the next 8 months. If they try to sell before August, people will not buy them.

Scalpers do not work at long term investments. They want to get a ticket & turn it around @ a profit in the shortest amount of time possible. As in hours. Not days. Not weeks. Not months. Not three-quarters of a year.

Some one that can drop that kind of cash and sit on it for 8 months.... is not a scalper. It's the guy in the $200,000 custom motor coach.

[theCryptofishist]

Good luck, CO. I think a lot of the people who have been making these wild suggestions about whose fault it is or what "should" be done are grasping for fairy tales, rather than learn from the experience or find themselves a different late August treat.
So I predict they will ignore your post or use the facts and analysis to bolster some other odd idea.

I should learn to access my well of compassion. Or something. Maybe take the lock off the cover...

[The CO]

Acceptance of futility & stubbornness in the face of it are 2 of my best traits.

[theCryptofishist]

Yes, those are good.

[mahe.balas]

Why cant Burning Man buy back tickets from potential sellers and have a wait list for ppl wanting to buy tickets after its sold out. They have to ban private ticket sales.This way genuine ppl who cannot make it Burning Man can get their money back. People genuinely interested in going to Buring Man have one place to look for tickets and scalpers have no choice but to sell it at face value back to BM or lose their money.

Btw: My vote to charge RV's and Gas Guzzlers for polluting the desert and reducing the ticket price.

P.S : Still looking for 1 or 2 BM tickets at face value + shipping.

[portaplaya]

They have to ban private ticket sales.This way genuine ppl who cannot make it Burning Man can get their money back.

Sadly, the laws on ticket sales in Nevada don't support this tactic. Ticket resale at whatever value the seller can get is legal in Nevada. To ban private ticket sales, the law would need to be changed. For whatever reason, the big shows in Vegas seem to support this ticketing environment and they are year-round, not just one week a year.

[Eric]

Btw: My vote to charge RV's and Gas Guzzlers for polluting the desert and reducing the ticket price.

Do you walk all the way there carrying everything you need on your back? Or did you make a cart to push all your stuff in from trees grown on your property and nails from the iron you mine from the ground?

If you don't you're a hypocrite. All that shit you haul out there in that gas-guzzling vehicle you're driving that came from god knows where on a ship or a train or a truck...

I.e.: bite me.

Hint: if you want a ticket start chasing the people who post that they're selling them, not just mentioning it it a random thread that no-one who's selling will see.

[portaplaya]

At least RV'ers are carpooling with between 4 to 6 burners per vehicles.

And since their gear and kitchen is inside the vehicle they tend to leave a lot less MOOP.

Where do you fall on travel trailers? How about hippy buses? For or against?

[oneeyeddick]

I think that tents make more damage to the environment than RVs, what with all that pounding holes in the playa for stakes and wallering a deep impression into the ground where you sleep.

Wanna bring ticket prices down?

Intall pay-per-use locks on the shitters that the ORG rent out for the general public to use.

[BBadger]

Why cant Burning Man buy back tickets from potential sellers and have a wait list for ppl wanting to buy tickets after its sold out. They have to ban private ticket sales.This way genuine ppl who cannot make it Burning Man can get their money back. People genuinely interested in going to Buring Man have one place to look for tickets and scalpers have no choice but to sell it at face value back to BM or lose their money.

Btw: My vote to charge RV's and Gas Guzzlers for polluting the desert and reducing the ticket price.

P.S : Still looking for 1 or 2 BM tickets at face value + shipping.

I have a better idea: po' ass entitled morons like yourself can buy your tickets in the huge timeframe they're available instead of acting like the kind of person who buys a variable-rate house loan, defaults, and then blames "the rich" for your predicament. This whole ticket fiasco is a damn microcosm for society in general.

[Furry Clown]

Waiting so late to buy your ticket was stupid there were warnings about a possible sell out.
So having to pay more for your ticket is sort of like a Stupid Tax

[avidiva]

I have a hypothesis:
Furry Clown and Twisted Whispers are the same person who did not sell either ticket.
If they are not the same person, though...they should definitely date because I think they are meant for each other. Didn't FurryClown say he and his girlfriend broke up? Well there you go!

[yellfireinatheater]

Why cant Burning Man buy back tickets from potential sellers and have a wait list for ppl wanting to buy tickets after its sold out. They have to ban private ticket sales.This way genuine ppl who cannot make it Burning Man can get their money back. People genuinely interested in going to Buring Man have one place to look for tickets and scalpers have no choice but to sell it at face value back to BM or lose their money.

Btw: My vote to charge RV's and Gas Guzzlers for polluting the desert and reducing the ticket price.

P.S : Still looking for 1 or 2 BM tickets at face value + shipping.

i posted this idea in other topics, but i have an idea! could tickets be printed with a participant's name and at the gate must be presented with ID? BM would have to rethink the no refunds policy. maybe have a return deadline a month before the event and then resell the all the returned tickets at a higher last minuet tier? you could still buy tickets for other people you would just have to give the persons full name. will call tickets could still be transferred. it might be worth the extra work to eliminate scalping altogether and would slow the stampede of the first tickets because people would be more hesitant to buy tickets unless they are sure they can go. what you guys think?

[oneeyeddick]

i posted this idea in other topics, blah,blah,blah....and... what you guys think?

WE think that crossposting sucks and you should knock it off.

[trilobyte]

Why cant Burning Man buy back tickets from potential sellers and have a wait list for ppl wanting to buy tickets after its sold out. They have to ban private ticket sales.This way genuine ppl who cannot make it Burning Man can get their money back. People genuinely interested in going to Buring Man have one place to look for tickets and scalpers have no choice but to sell it at face value back to BM or lose their money.

Aside from not being legally enforceable under Nevada state laws, it's still what I consider a bullshit move. Offering some kind of ticket buyback program (enforceable or no) is adding this additional burden on the existing infrastructure (which currently does not offer refunds, or have extra staff sitting around with nothing else to do with their time) all to support the people who could not be bothered to either get their tickets in the first half of the year or even pay attention to the months of warnings that tickets were going fast and a sellout was imminent. Actions have consequences... or my grandfather used to put it, "you snooze, you lose."

[theCryptofishist]

Why cant Burning Man buy back tickets from potential sellers and have a wait list for ppl wanting to buy tickets after its sold out. They have to ban private ticket sales.This way genuine ppl who cannot make it Burning Man can get their money back. People genuinely interested in going to Buring Man have one place to look for tickets and scalpers have no choice but to sell it at face value back to BM or lose their money.

Aside from not being legally enforceable under Nevada state laws, it's still what I consider a bullshit move. Offering some kind of ticket buyback program (enforceable or no) is adding this additional burden on the existing infrastructure (which currently does not offer refunds, or have extra staff sitting around with nothing else to do with their time) all to support the people who could not be bothered to either get their tickets in the first half of the year or even pay attention to the months of warnings that tickets were going fast and a sellout was imminent. Actions have consequences... or my grandfather used to put it, "you snooze, you lose."

Indeed. And all this ticket buyback reselling would come right at the busy time of year. They've driven the golden spike and even if it's only DPW out there (and I dont' know that any other departments aren't there) everyone who works for the llc is in high gear putting the party together.

[portaplaya]

Why cant Burning Man buy back tickets from potential sellers and have a wait list for ppl wanting to buy tickets after its sold out. They have to ban private ticket sales.

That is exactly the problem: Nevada state law allows the resale of tickets, including resale at a profit. Thus Burning Man cannot ban private ticket sales because the law allows it; people would legally be able to just ignore the event-instituted ban.

[illy dilly]

Why cant Burning Man buy back tickets from potential sellers and have a wait list for ppl wanting to buy tickets after its sold out. They have to ban private ticket sales.

That is exactly the problem: Nevada state law allows the resale of tickets, including resale at a profit. Thus Burning Man cannot ban private ticket sales because the law allows it; people would legally be able to just ignore the event-instituted ban.

But Bman does reserve the right to revoke any ticket.
They could state "Any ticket reported to be part of a third party sale will be canceled" even if the state of NV does allow scalping.
Though, it would be hard to enforce, besides for the fact that it would eliminate the ability to double check if a ticket is real. So then by entering into a third party sale, you could very easily be buying a fake ticket.
The point I'm making is that just because something is legal in a state, doesn't mean that an event, corp, or business has to also allow it. Though, I don't think this whole plan over all would work. I agree that the time and money spent trying to do this buy back program could be a waste of time and money.
But if it were as simple as a person logs on, goes to a "cancel ticket" page, then enters the ticket number to be canceled, gets a confirmation email, then the money gets wired back to their credit card with in 30 days. In the mean time, 1 more ticket pops up for sale as a will call ticket. If you were in need of a ticket, you would have to check back continually to see if any new tickets popped up.

[portaplaya]

Tickets to all four of Beyonce's shows in NYC next week sold out in under a minute. First show in 22 seconds. That's about 5,600 tickets, total.

http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/12 ... 2-seconds/

I don't think we are ever going to get that bad. First, this is a 4 to 8 day investment for the scalpers. And tickets were only $99-$149 (plus fees). And they only seem to be jacked up 100%. So that is possibly a $650K investment to make $650K in one week's time. http://kijijitix.com/ResultsTicket.aspx ... nt=Beyonce

Burning Man would take at least a $6 million investment to make another $6 million, but it would take as much as eight months to see the return. Doesn't seem like a good business model to me.

Besides, we know the ticket handling system for Burning Man would never work smoothly enough for this to work.