One idea for BMorg to mitigate scalping

[kelizabeth]

You're certainly a cranky reactionary. Calm the heck down, friend! No one's trying to hurt you!

Not only is it a GOOD opinion. It is the prevailing opinion shared by the majority of people that don't walk around with their heads up their asses.

When did you start saving? If that wasn't early enough, why didn't you start sooner?

Peple like you are getting grief because you will not take responsibility for your own actions (or lack of) and instead try to blame others.
This is not the place to be given slack.

Do for yourself or do without. That applies everywhere. The sooner you learn that, the happier you'll be.


-Badger

That''s, like, your opinion, man.

[Schwarttzy]

I know I'm new around here, but I would like to ask, "Why not just figure out a way to have so many tickets for sale that they don't sell out, like it has for 25 years?"

Also I think that If the number of tickets aren't raised for 2012 everyone running around talking about being "Prepared" are in for serious awakening when these tickets sell out the first day because everyone gets prepared extra early next year. Leaving haves and the have nots in the same situation we are right now.

Edit*

I know that I'm going to buy one ticket every year now right when the become available even if I'm not confident I'm going

[kelizabeth]

There is a certain cap to the number of people the BLM allows in the contained space that burning man is held at. Correct me if I am wrong, but everyone has a ticket, some people get tickets automatically for working for the BMorg (throughout the year, months before and following out in the Black Rock Desert) and then there is general admission. So the number of tickets they release is calculated based on that. There is probably about a 1,000 to 2,000 person wiggle room there, for the BMOrg to cover their asses. BLM is who needs to be pressured to increase the cap so more tickets can be sold, not BMOrg.

That being said, 50,000 people is a LOT of people burning fuel and making messes in a concentrated area, and a HUGE impact on the surrounding areas. I never thought I would see it get this big. I thought 20-30 thousand was a lot, and within a few years the population spiked to capacity. I really can't see the event continuing to be sustainable with numbers like this, and something is definitely going to change. Either the event will continue to sell out, earlier and earlier each year from here on out; the event will move to a location in the desert (or a new geographic location entirely) that can handle a larger size, (the event has changed locations in the past due to size); the event will eventually break up into smaller (~10,000+- people), outgrowth events attended by those who can't stand the absurd size of the main event anymore.

I know I'm new around here, but I would like to ask, "Why not just figure out a way to have so many tickets for sale that they don't sell out, like it has for 25 years?"

Also I think that If the number of tickets aren't raised for 2012 everyone running around talking about being "Prepared" are in for serious awakening when these tickets sell out the first day because everyone gets prepared extra early next year. Leaving haves and the have nots in the same situation we are right now.

[Eric]

There is a certain cap to the number of people the BLM allows in the contained space that burning man is held at. Correct me if I am wrong, but everyone has a ticket, some people get tickets automatically for working for the BMorg (throughout the year, months before and following out in the Black Rock Desert) and then there is general admission. So the number of tickets they release is calculated based on that. There is probably about a 1,000 to 2,000 person wiggle room there, for the BMOrg to cover their asses. BLM is who needs to be pressured to increase the cap so more tickets can be sold, not BMOrg.

Damn, now you're starting to talk like one of the Old Timers in some of your posts.

Hopefully you'll stick around after the ticket nightmare & the event. We can always use fresh blood in here.

[Schwarttzy]

I would hate to be split up into different group, because the idea of some art, act, or something not being there would upset me where as saying to myself "I was there, but didn't see it because I didn't have enough time" is something I that would be much easier live with.

[Schwarttzy]

BLM is who needs to be pressured to increase the cap so more tickets can be sold, not BMOrg.]

I wasn't pressuring anyone, I just asked how we go about increasing the number of tickets, SOOOOO with what you said I think the we should be talking to BLM or looking for a new place, instead of rearranging the tickets sales, because it will likely only get worse.

[kelizabeth]

Pretty much. All the squabbling going on on ePlaya over this sell-out thing is indicative of a larger overall problem - The event can not sustain the number of people who want to participate.

I have a solution: Ban all luxury RVs from entry, that would carve out a significant group of annoying spectators who show up to gawk at naked titties for the weekend. Ahem. #NeverHadAProblemWithCreepyWeekendPervsPassingThroughMyCamp

BLM is who needs to be pressured to increase the cap so more tickets can be sold, not BMOrg.]

I wasn't pressuring anyone, I just asked how we go about increasing the number of tickets, SOOOOO with what you said I think the we should be talking to BLM or looking for a new place, instead of rearranging the tickets sales, because it will likely only get worse.

Nah. Some of them make valid points, its just that their delivery of those points is so mind-numbingly rude that those points are ignored in favor of arguing with them over their lack of tact. I agree with their factual points, I simp0ly get miffed by their Micheal Savage-complex.

And its not old timers, its a group of people who think they own the event because they have more than 3000 posts on ePlaya. There are plenty of sweet, friendly old-timers out there - most of them, in fact.

And I think I will stick around these boards a little bit. I've been a lurker for years, to answer questions I've had on a range of shelter/supply/skin allergy topics. I think it wasn't until now that I've had something useful to offer (in general, not regarding ticketing)

Damn, now you're starting to talk like one of the Old Timers in some of your posts.

Hopefully you'll stick around after the ticket nightmare & the event. We can always use fresh blood in here.

[kelizabeth]

What stupid logic is that. First, if you couldn't save money in time (less than $360.00, might I remind you), you probably shouldn't be going to Burning Man in the first place. The ticket is the least of the expense. Couldn't that money be better spend on an education that would enable you to earn enough money to not have to save 12 months for a $360.00 ticket? Just wondering.

Ahem.

Translation:
"What the fuck is wrong with you? Don't know that you have to be one of the financial elite to spend a week at Burning Man!? Didn't you see the disclaimer on the website that reads "No members of the proletariat allowed - and if you are a Plebe, we will shoot you on sight?" You couldn't possibly be financially prepared enough for a week of CAMPING if you don't have at least $800 to spend after you buy the ticket. If you don't have tons of money, there's no way you can be radically self reliant!

There's no way you can contribute to the community! It doesn't matter if I don't know you, that I don't know that you are part of a camp that does fundraisers to afford food, water and gas for the week, that you claim the ticket is virtually the only expense for you to attend! That you live a radically self-reliant lifestyle on a day to day basis the rest of the year [read: dumpstering, foraging, Food Not Bombs, salvaging, InfoShops, etc.] You can't be radically self reliant without $$$$$! I spend $1300 alone on my camper rental each year! Hello!? Are you listening to me??"


/endbriefcombativeoutburst

[theCryptofishist]

Now the staggered release of tickets idea might have some meat to it, reserving a pack of will-call tickets for July or August release. This would help a lot of last minute musical acts, artists, and regular folk who were not sure if they were going, were invited along to help out a particular camp, lost tickets, whatever the reason. That block of tickets would be the "gate price". Hell, reward those who bought early, lower the first block price(s), and raise the price of whatever goes on sale in July/August. That seems fair. Something like that. Also something needs to be done about the ticket opening day DDOS issue. Something can be done, there are a few good ways to help alleviate the server strain, it just has to actually be done.

This is pretty much what happens now. Maybe a little more formal.

(Oh, and you may have lost Eric with the RV remark.)

[kelizabeth]

This is pretty much what happens now. Maybe a little more formal.

(Oh, and you may have lost Eric with the RV remark.)

Of course. What I was piggybacking on was the idea of holding a block of tickets for release long after the event has sold out, much closer to the event date. This is not done right now, because a sell-out has never happened before.

[yellfireinatheater]

Not to reignite passions or anything, but, the real problem may actually be next year, and we might as all well be thinking about it.
Perhaps this is a random event, a case of the desire to go to BM greater than the rate at which the BLM allowed the population to grow. Therefore, it is possible that next year will return to normal.

However, there is a monkey wrench, and that is all the scalpers, the professional ones I mean. If there is a perceived undersupply of tickets, the scalpers will be working their computers on the day of the sale in January, and then they will release the tickets at higher prices. I don't honestly see an answer to that. What if tickets sell out next year in January -- to scalpers. Then we are all to blame.

The solution is simple - nobody buy from a scalper. But that is obviously not happening - see ebay, stubhub, whatever. So, hearing people's thoughts still makes sense, even if it doesn't really matter for this year ultimately. BMORG is going to have to think about it, at the very least.

Peter

this is a very good point that i think a lot of people are missing. what happened this year is done and it will take alot of work from people without tickets to get home this year. they have learned they're lesson. But I read that usually 5,000 tickets are usually sold in july and another few thousand in aug. that means that many more people are going to be buying tickets early next year. as well as more people buying early tickets we need to take into account that Burning man is not a secret club. people out side of our community are aware of the event. it has been reported in some of the media that BM sold out and how much they are for on ebay. scalpers will be buying as many tickets as they can next year. with about a 200% increase in ticket cost after the sell out this year, pro scalpers will be foaming at the mouth. i predict burning man will sell out much sooner next year. we need to stop being short sighted and think about a solution for next year. Next year is when EVERYONE- even the first day buyers are going to feel the presence of scalpers. anyone who bought a ticket the first week this year knows how hard it was to get through and next year will be even worse. i just dont want to see a big junk of first tier tickets go to scalpers. not saying i know the solution, just saying lets start hearing some ideas instead of petty arguments. hindsight is always 20/20, but lets look forward.

[The CO]

I have a solution: Ban all luxury RVs from entry,

Not gonna happen. There are a great deal of people that take RVs for health reasons. By banning them you step into the realm of violating ADA.

Also, Radical Inclusion.

[kelizabeth]

Radical literacy. Reread my sentence that you quoted.

I have a solution: Ban all luxury RVs from entry,

Not gonna happen. There are a great deal of people that take RVs for health reasons. By banning them you step into the realm of violating ADA.

Also, Radical Inclusion.

[The CO]

I read it just fine. How you going to enforce that?

"Sorry, you can't come in, your RV is too nice. We're only letting in people with modified school buses."

For a person with a CPAP machine or any number of issues, it's not a luxury. It's survival.

And, Radical Inclusion.

[kelizabeth]

There are plenty of RVs that are not in the category of "luxury" RVs that can support CPAP machines and Oh yea I was making a joke about gross excess by non-radically reliant folks from which you pulled a soundbyte to argue with, ignoring its context. Christ.

I read it just fine. How you going to enforce that?

"Sorry, you can't come in, your RV is too nice. We're only letting in people with modified school buses."

For a person with a CPAP machine or any number of issues, it's not a luxury. It's survival.

And, Radical Inclusion.

[OregonRed]

Radical literacy. Reread my sentence that you quoted.

I have a solution: Ban all luxury RVs from entry,

Not gonna happen. There are a great deal of people that take RVs for health reasons. By banning them you step into the realm of violating ADA.

Also, Radical Inclusion.

Who decides what is a "luxury" RV? Most of the RVs I've seen out there are nice but nothing I'd call luxury. And are we now discriminating against the wealthy?

"What the fuck is wrong with you? Don't know that you have to be one of the financial elite to spend a week at Burning Man!? Didn't you see the disclaimer on the website that reads "No members of the proletariat allowed - and if you are a Plebe, we will shoot you on sight?" You couldn't possibly be financially prepared enough for a week of CAMPING if you don't have at least $800 to spend after you buy the ticket. If you don't have tons of money, there's no way you can be radically self reliant!

I REALLY think you're deliberately misunderstanding Jkisha's point. My husband (TheCO), myself, and our oldest daughter (JekJek) are all underemployed. JekJek and I both attend college, and there is NO extra money most months. However, we're going this year, and I haven't missed a Burn since my first in 2001. We make it happen regardless of the financial difficulties. We plan, we work, we save.

The point that you are missing is this: If you don't have the ability to make sure that you have your ticket, how are you going to make sure that you can survive in the desert? After ten Burns I have most of the infrastructure I will need, I have got meal planning dialed in, I know how much water I need, I know how I'm going to evaporate gray water, I know how I'm going to take care of myself out there. I planned for eighteen month before my first trip to BRC, and I spent a LOT of money on the Burn that year (which is part of the reason why I can go out now on a teensy~weensy budget).

Camping at Burning Man is expensive, particularly the first year. If you haven't bought your ticket for your first trip out by July because you couldn't afford it, how can you guarantee that you will not be a drain on the community? It CAN be done on a tight budget but, it requires more than three weeks planning to do so.

[Dr Jet Sinister]

Radical literacy. Reread my sentence that you quoted.

I have a solution: Ban all luxury RVs from entry,

Not gonna happen. There are a great deal of people that take RVs for health reasons. By banning them you step into the realm of violating ADA.

Also, Radical Inclusion.

You should seriously go fuck yourself anytime you feel like banning anything because *you* think it's a great idea. It just makes you sound like an ignorant bigot.

[Dr Jet Sinister]

I have a solution: Ban all luxury RVs from entry, that would carve out a significant group of annoying spectators who show up to gawk at naked titties for the weekend. Ahem. #NeverHadAProblemWithCreepyWeekendPervsPassingThroughMyCamp

There are plenty of RVs that are not in the category of "luxury" RVs that can support CPAP machines and Oh yea I was making a joke about gross excess by non-radically reliant folks from which you pulled a soundbyte to argue with, ignoring its context. Christ.

The context is clear here, as this thread is discussing possible ways to avoid this year's ticket problem and you offered your 'solution.' You also said you weren't new here, if that's the case then you would have seen the bazillion threads about RV's that have been here for years. It's a touchy subject.

[The CO]

Pretty much. All the squabbling going on on ePlaya over this sell-out thing is indicative of a larger overall problem - The event can not sustain the number of people who want to participate.

I have a solution: Ban all luxury RVs from entry, that would carve out a significant group of annoying spectators who show up to gawk at naked titties for the weekend. Ahem. #NeverHadAProblemWithCreepyWeekendPervsPassingThroughMyCamp

Where's the joke? I thought you were positing an idea, must have been confused by the "I have a solution" part. In turn, I pointed out why it wouldn't work. If it was a joke, cool, needs a better punchline, whatever. If it's not a joke, the question remains: Who is the arbiter/what is the criteria of a "luxury" RV? How is the distinction to be made? How is it going to be enforced?

[kelizabeth]

I'm a little confused at what you're getting at:

I REALLY think you're deliberately misunderstanding Jkisha's point.

Nope, not deliberately misunderstanding anything.

The point that you are missing is this: If you don't have the ability to make sure that you have your ticket, how are you going to make sure that you can survive in the desert?

Seriously? I really don't think that was his point. I think his point was that if you don't have much money, you shouldn't try to go to burning man.

After ten Burns I have most of the infrastructure I will need, I have got meal planning dialed in, I know how much water I need, I know how I'm going to evaporate gray water, I know how I'm going to take care of myself out there.

You're making the assumption others looking for tickets don't? Because you'd be wrong. Many are set on infrastructure and are only lacking a ticket.

I planned for eighteen month before my first trip to BRC, and I spent a LOT of money on the Burn that year (which is part of the reason why I can go out now on a teensy~weensy budget).

Yup, personally my only expense is the ticket, and ~100 for food and water. I have complete, annual, standing infrastructure myself.

Camping at Burning Man is expensive, particularly the first year.

Doesn't have to be if you don't want it to be, especially if all your infrastructure is taken care of that first year which affects subsequent years.

If you haven't bought your ticket for your first trip out by July because you couldn't afford it, how can you guarantee that you will not be a drain on the community?

What is with all this "first trip" business anyhow? I never said anything about this being my first trip, on the contrary, this is one of several trips to BM, and desert camping in general.

You also said you weren't new here

Did I?

[kelizabeth]

You should seriously go fuck yourself anytime you feel like banning anything because *you* think it's a great idea. It just makes you sound like an ignorant bigot.

Wow, that's a little uncalled for. Excuse me, I'll never suggest banning a diesel guzzling monstrosity with a satellite dish and jumbo TV inside again. As an obvious joke. That went over your head. I am such a jerk.

[The CO]

Take a deep breath. ORed is using the majestic plural of "you" for the groups of new people, not addressing you directly.

[kelizabeth]

Take a deep breath. ORed is using the majestic plural of "you" for the groups of new people, not addressing you directly.

That wasn't made very clear, but ok.

the question remains: Who is the arbiter/what is the criteria of a "luxury" RV? How is the distinction to be made? How is it going to be enforced?

I wasn't offering it as an actual solution, but rather as a joke at my annoyance of pervy spectators. And people who watch football games on their satellite televisions in their luxury while out there (I've seen it). So I can't really offer answers to your questions. It was in no way a slight to people with medical issues. I solemnly swear it.

[CapSmashy]

You should seriously go fuck yourself anytime you feel like banning anything because *you* think it's a great idea. It just makes you sound like an ignorant bigot.

Wow, that's a little uncalled for. Excuse me, I'll never suggest banning a diesel guzzling monstrosity with a satellite dish and jumbo TV inside again. As an obvious joke. That went over your head. I am such a jerk.

It is no more uncalled for than your desire to arbitrarily ban a certain set of individuals from attending the event just because they have nice digs.

Yes, let's just target the modern, clean burning, efficient diesel powered rigs from the event and let the whole parade of everything from VW micro buses limping along on 3 cylinders and burning a quart of oil every 4 miles to the dawn of yesteryear big block Mopar Winnebagos with their 4 mpg that have not seen a pollution control in their history.

[capjbadger]

If it's not a joke, the question remains: Who is the arbiter/what is the criteria of a "luxury" RV? How is the distinction to be made? How is it going to be enforced?

The same people that decide what "art" is really art and worthy of a grant?

*pulls pin and chucks in can-o-worms grenade and runs out*
*muppet flail*

-Badger

[CapSmashy]

An idea I had about releasing a block closer to the event, is to have them at select walk-in outlets in high volume areas like the Bay Area and Reno, and only allow (as I believe it is now) two (2) tickets to be purchased per person, at the highest price. As in a second release at walk-in outlets. This would eliminate a second release day strain on BM's servers that others were worried about, and I'm sure the walk-in outlets would welcome a second round of potential customers (I ALWAYS end up buying stuff at sports basement when I go to get my ticket). Again, a higher price penalty to the late buyers, that would benefit the early buyers with drastically lower-priced tickets. Everyone wins.

Yes, let's exclude the rest of the world from being able to buy a late release block of tickets.

[Dr Jet Sinister]

You also said you weren't new here

Did I?

Yes. You did. Here.

Very sound points you make, and I agree. I myself have been a lurker all over ePlaya for the past several years, and I feel like kind of a jerk for this whole ticket fiasco being the impetus for my sudden participation.

Did I misinterpret 'lurker' for 'someone who reads but doesn't post' incorrectly?

[kelizabeth]

Yea. But I don't read the boards like a book from cover to cover. I go to the search box, search on the topic I am interested in, and read those threads. Never has my search topic been "RV" or "Camper", etc. Because I personally am not interested in seeking information on that subject. I imagine I am not the only one who as lurked the board for years and never read an RV thread, or a heated discussion on the topic elsewhere. So yea, Ok. You win. I'm not new.

[kelizabeth]

If it's not a joke, the question remains: Who is the arbiter/what is the criteria of a "luxury" RV? How is the distinction to be made? How is it going to be enforced?

The same people that decide what "art" is really art and worthy of a grant?

*pulls pin and chucks in can-o-worms grenade and runs out*
*muppet flail*

-Badger

Jerk. Stop stalking me!

[kelizabeth]

Hey, negative Nancy:

You should seriously go fuck yourself anytime you feel like banning anything because *you* think it's a great idea. It just makes you sound like an ignorant bigot.

Wow, that's a little uncalled for. Excuse me, I'll never suggest banning a diesel guzzling monstrosity with a satellite dish and jumbo TV inside again. As an obvious joke. That went over your head. I am such a jerk.

It is no more uncalled for than your desire to arbitrarily ban a certain set of individuals from attending the event just because they have nice digs.

Yes, let's just target the modern, clean burning, efficient diesel powered rigs from the event and let the whole parade of everything from VW micro buses limping along on 3 cylinders and burning a quart of oil every 4 miles to the dawn of yesteryear big block Mopar Winnebagos with their 4 mpg that have not seen a pollution control in their history.