Landmark Education Folk?

[Barry555]

Hey, my friend and I are newbees at Burning Man and it would be great to meet any landmark graduates attending this year. Great to greet any transformed playa players who play FULL Out!! Let us know... and maybe we can meet up somewhere...any suggestions where to meet?

[jkisha]

LOL nobody that has been ripped of by landmark can afford to go to BM.

[Bold]

Not true! I know several people who have drank the Landmark kool-aid and still manage to afford a ticket ;)

[bigbluedoggy]

Friend wanted me to do it so bad he paid my way a few years ago. It was pretty much the same thing I did 30 years ago in Lifespring. Most annoying thing is the intense sales pitch at the end to get everyone you know to fork over the money... I mean get enlightened. The actual "training" is interesting and helpful in its own way, but I thoroughly resented the expectation that I should get all my friends into it. Bleah.

[Isotopia]

...any suggestions where to meet?

Try pitching your tent next door to the Scientology camp. Camp Xeno, I think they call it.

[Badger]

...or try Camp Cult.

[Ugly Dougly]

Yeah, it's from est. Pass.

[theCryptofishist]

So how does their food compare to the Krishna camp? Starchy and low protein too?

[Barry555]

Interesting how we respond to something from what we believe to be true rather than our [i]experience[/i].

What if that is all we are doing in our lives as well, living life from our beliefs of what is so, and not living life as lived...miss alot. it's like eating the menu in a restaurant, not the meal. Really!

Please only respond if you are someone wanting to connect. Thanks...

[Simon of the Playa]

hey, if you're not gonna eat those adderall, i will.

[Bin Noddin]

My EXPERIENCE has been the same as the Doggie's. A serious sales pitch, including offer by friend to pay.

Whatever. My dinner was real enough. I hope you can connect with like-minded people, but there's no way you'll keep us out of your garden. Just ask MDMF007.

[Barry555]

I meant the program itself. Yes, I would agree, sometimes they have been a bit pushy...nonetheless the program was awesome and life altering as I did it 35 years ago and it still works in my life as empowerment. Each to his own though. See you at the BM!

[Simon of the Playa]

L.Ron Hubbard can Lick My ASS!

and so can Landmark College....don't EVEN try to shill that shit here Barry555, you will find a very cold and hard response up your EST before you can say e-meter.

just sayin'...

[Barry555]

Let the good times roll!!!

[Simon of the Playa]

I have two friends that I meet with every week on a software project who are involved in this "self-help" organization called "Landmark Education." Over the past year they've annoyed me pretty much every week telling me that I should go to various Landmark events- their graduations, intros, etc. Landmark pretty much seems to consume their existence to a rather disturbing degree.

So finally, just to keep them quiet about it once and for all (and sheer curiosity) my wife and I went to one of their intro meetings. The purpose of this event: To persuade newbies to sign up for their nearly $500, 3 day Forum- what I think of as their "bootcamp". And naturally, the costly courses in the name of "self-improvement" don't end there.

I'll keep it short but what I saw at the intro was just plain creepy-- way over the top euphoria on part of the graduates that resembled what I've seen having visited and observed other known cults (it's a strange hobby...). And I observed blatant psychological manipulation in trying to win the new recruits, by separating them from each other and getting the graduates to apply massive peer pressure to get them to sign up.

This all raised my "this is a cult!" alarms, so I began doing a little research. What I found was pretty startling:

*

Landmark Education's roots go back to EST, which was founded by a Scientologist named Jack Rosenberg (who went by the name "Werner Erhard"). He has a rather shady history, which Landmark Education tends to avoid talking about. He sold the EST "technology" to Landmark Education about 20 years ago, as he was being chased out of the country by scandal. His brother Harry Rosenberg runs the company today.
*

The influence of Scientology in Landmark Education is evident if you look carefully- the jargon is very similar (for example, they call their product a "technology"). The endless knowledge "upgrades" of Scientology (which cost big bucks) are mirrored by Landmark's own (they keep you forking over the money and getting new recruits by basically telling you that you'll revert to unhappiness if you stray off their path).
*

The Forum itself (the 3 day, $500 intro course for newbies) basically consists of locking up about 150 attendees in a windowless hotel room for three days straight, and their every movement is dictated by the "leader". They eat once a day, are deprived of sleep, and are verbally and emotionally abused by the leader. Eventually, attendees start breaking down and crying, and this is what they call "getting it" and/or a "breakthrough." Landmark then inserts itself as the solution to their problems (though the attendees are somehow convinced that they're empowered through this).

Having been in the military in my early adult life, The Forum reminded me a lot of what they did in bootcamp- they break you down, they change your vocabulary, and they replace your old personality with the one that the military desired for you. Simply put, it's brainwashing.

A few years ago, France 3 aired a documentary on Landmark called "Journey to the land of the New Gurus" which resulted in Landmark making an exit from that country. The French government considers Landmark a cult. I strongly recommend watching it, as it shows what really goes on inside The Forum:

http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?opti ... emid=12url

[Barry555]

Thanks for all the info...

[Simon of the Playa]

you're welcome....would you like the number of a de-programmer as well?

[Barry555]

Nope. My life is extraordinary!!! Thanks to the empowerment that program gave me to deal effectively with the risk that living life presents. Wouldn't trade it for anything. Looking forward to our first visit to BM!!!

[ygmir]

Hey, whatever works for ya, then: Yay you!!

I might though suggest, you tread lightly if or when you try to foist any of this on "us/eplaya".
Preachin' and recruitin' don't fly well here.

Welcome, though, to eplaya, and I wish you fun in BRC.

[Barry555]

I totally agree! Will do. I just wanted to meet some folk who have done the program. No selling.

Looking forward to the experience!!

[rockbum]

Isn't Burning Man purported to be a venue in which everybody is accepted, a place where full self-expression is not only accepted, but supported? Or does that only apply if another person's views are acceptable to you?

Some of the replies on this post are downright virulent. And, you're welcome to your view, of course--that's what it's all about, right?

Can you really tell someone else about Burning Man that hasn't been there, such that they get how it really is? Or do you have to actually experience it? There's plenty of people that can tell you all about how Burning Man is a hippy sex-craved free for all for the ultra-liberal left crazies of this county. But is that true? Or just their opinion based on other people's opinions based on heresay and third hand stories taken out of context?

The Landmark Forum is like Burning Man: all the opinions in the world don't mean squat, you have to experience it. It is, by it's nature, experiential. All that stuff posted here about Landmark being a cult, coming out of Scientology, brainwashing people, breaking them down--that's just not true.

Landmark was featured this spring in Time magazine:

http://theworldnewspress.com/2011/06/ti ... education/

Perhaps Time magazine's report might be a more objective view. Or have an open mind, and talk to someone like me that has done it, and has had very real and wonderful results in life out of it.

For myself, one of my big wake-ups in life was how much of my life was about my opinion, and my judgements and assessments of other people's opinions, and how worthy it seemed to engage in discussions and arguments about that. Then I finally got a different viewpoint to approach life from: what if I had space for your views and opinions, and actually looked at them, to see what value they might have, how might my life be enriched from looking at something from your view? ESPECIALLY when I am TOTALLY RIGHT about that my view is right and yours is wrong.

I got the extent of my own intolerance of other people. That alone has been life altering for me.

Some of the very real impacts on my life of doing the Landmark Forum:

1) I saw that I had decided very early in life (not a conscious decision; just one that fell out of something that happened), that kids were loved, but not always wanted around when adults were having fun. The result: I was never going to have kids of my own. When I saw that a "decision" made when I was about 4 years old had driven my life, I had a new opportunity to choose, as an adult, whether I would have the experience of being a father. I chose yes. That was never going to happen, EVER, before doing the Forum. My daughter is now 11 years old, and being a daddy has been the most rewarding experience of my life. Period.

2) I felt trapped in a job/career that I had spent a big chunk of my life on--college, 15 years in the career, all the usual jazz. Not depressed or anything severe like that--after all, I was successful financially, was living the "American dream" (whatever that is); but vaguely dissatisfied, like there should be something more. But it seemed (as in it felt real), that there was nothing I could do about that. I was trained for the career, had experience, was very successful, how could I ever do anything else? In the Forum, I realized that it was ME saying I was trapped, there is absolutely no "reality" behind that; merely a conversation I was making up in my head. The RESULT of that conversation though, was real impact in my life: I was living my life less than fully fulfilled and happy. That affected my marriage (after all, who wants to live with someone vaguely dissatisfied and unhappy?), relationships with friends, my very experience of my life. And most importantly, I got that THIS IS NOT MY PRACTICE LIFE, THIS IS IT!!!! Why not live it full out, give it everything I can, all the time, go for it!!!

That's how I get to live my life now. All the time. I invented a whole new career that I love, and set off to sail around the world for a few years so my wife and I could spend all day with our new daughter, rather than both going to the daily grind and having someone else raise our little girl.

The Landmark Forum can be confronting, because it is an opportunity to start dealing with all the places in life you have given up on; sold yourself short on; and justified to yourself, by coming up with all sorts of justifications about why you gave up on yourself and your life. Or why it's OK to be less than great with your best friend, or your partner in life, or your mom or dad, or the clerk at the Customer Service counter (how many times have you been a total shit to someone just in the last three days?).

And, you're welcome to continue to have your views, and I will defend your right to have those views. You will get what you get from having them, and I'll get what I get from having mine, and that's the perfect path for each of us to walk in life, at this moment. Why do I say that? It's because this is what I am actually doing, and what you are actually doing, that is reality. I've found that living life dealing with reality, rather than the stories and interpretations you and I make up about what is actually happening, is a very powerful and fulfilling way to live life.

Peace, and see you on the Playa

[/url]

[Sic Pup]

Hey there, welcome to ePlaya!

[rockbum]

Hey, thanks for the welcome!

I was just looking on the web, and found some projects created by Landmark Forum graduates during their Self Expression and Leadership program (which costs a whopping $175 or so, they really rip you off):

The Generosity Project http://www.thegenerosityproject.net/?page_id=351

Youth Making a Difference http://wn.com/Part_1_Children_Helping_P ... iving_Live

The Chicago Abandoned Lot Project
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ9ev1rnAG8

Can you get behind stuff like this? This is just 3 of thousands of projects created by Landmark graduates, designed to make a real and lasting contribution to the world, the people around them, and through that, their experience of fulfillment and contribution in their own lives.

Kind of like Burners Without Borders. Only a whole lot bigger, it spans the globe. Maybe there are more similarities between what Burning Man is about, and what Landmark is about, than dis-similarities. If one only had an open mind to look. If you'd like a new view of what a truly open mind can look like, I know a stupid 3 day seminar you could try. lol

[theCryptofishist]

All I can say is that if I don't eat right on the playa, it's my own damn fault.
Somethings are below the belt, as it were.

[Barry555]

Outstanding!!! Definitely support this. It's projects like these that people fully give of themselves (no pay) and begin to shift the worldviews to a new reality. It's just the small minds that argue for their persistence. By disagreeing they don't see, they actually end up supporting the transformations. Onward!

[Ugly Dougly]

rockbum/Barry555, have you been to Burning Man yet?

What would Werner Erhard say? Stop bragging about Landmark long enough to join the community of burners. You're letting it become a barrier.

You'll be surrounded by 1000's of new friends soon, it doesn't matter if they're LM grads or not!

[Barry555]

He would say what you would say...

Let's let all this go and BURN!!!!

[Bob]

Contrary to popular belief, Burning Man doesn't require buying into any particular belief system, or purport to improve anything whatsoever. It just requires you buy a ticket, pick up your trash, and generally obey the law.

Doesn't prevent some people from making it out to be an EST-like cult, of course.

[Simon of the Playa]

Hey, thanks for the welcome!

I was just looking on the web, and found some projects created by Landmark Forum graduates during their Self Expression and Leadership program (which costs a whopping $175 or so, they really rip you off):

The Generosity Project http://www.thegenerosityproject.net/?page_id=351

Youth Making a Difference http://wn.com/Part_1_Children_Helping_P ... iving_Live

The Chicago Abandoned Lot Project
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ9ev1rnAG8

Can you get behind stuff like this? This is just 3 of thousands of projects created by Landmark graduates, designed to make a real and lasting contribution to the world, the people around them, and through that, their experience of fulfillment and contribution in their own lives.

Kind of like Burners Without Borders. Only a whole lot bigger, it spans the globe. Maybe there are more similarities between what Burning Man is about, and what Landmark is about, than dis-similarities. If one only had an open mind to look. If you'd like a new view of what a truly open mind can look like, I know a stupid 3 day seminar you could try. lol

NO COMMERCE YOU FUCKING TURD!

[Barry555]

Now Simon be nice... remember the spirit of BM!

Honor everyone's view, each is valid...yours too

Now relax...