Carding @ Burning Man for a New Bar in 2007

[skibear]

Lets see, If I wanted a bogus ID, not saying I'd even think of doing
this for 1/2 price ski tickets, since I'm not quite 65 all I'd have to do
is ask a teenager or young college student, where to get a fake ID.


How's homeland security going to stop the terrorists if they can't
stop our own kids from getting fake ID's.

[Finnegan]

Do terr'ists ski? Who knew?

[gidget]

In reply to all this talk about not being able to tell a fake id from a real one, it doesn't take a brain surgeon or rocket scientist to figure this out. Most, if not all, states have discontinued issuing the old style laminate ids which were the easiest to fake. New ids generally have some kind of a holographic sticker over the top, ghosted or watermark images, and other stuff that's hard to fake. When you check the id hold it by the edges and even bend it slightly (not enough to cause permanent damage of course!) to see if it seems unusually thick or if the sticker flakes/cracks, then it's probably fake. As for overseas ids, I don't know, but they'd all have passports, no? But then again, I don't know how hard it is to fake a passport... Although the photocopied id is a great idea it's not technically a valid form of identification for obtaining alcohol since anyone with photoshop can whip one up... You are within your rights to reject any id you don't feel 100% about, and if your patron pitches a fit about their questionable id then you probably don't want them at your bar anyway.

My first few years at BM I thought carding was pretty pointless and it did piss me off. Then I had to get a server's permit for work and after sitting through that boring ass 4 hour class I did have have a new appreciation for the laws, they are not there to inconvenience you or piss you off, they're just there to keep everybody SAFE. So now on the playa if I'm not carrying my id because I'm afraid I'll lose it, I'm carrying my own liquor in my travel dust proof sippy-cup instead.

I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do with their bar, card or don't, whatever, but you guys who are getting so irate over people just trying to be responsible, give it a rest. There was enough negativity on the playa last year... If I forget my id and a bar won't serve me, I'm not going to take it personally, and I kindly suggest that you don't either.

Serve on bars! and have a fun, safe (dare I say it) responsible time!

[MikeVDS]

Even the new IDs are easy to make. You can buy magnetic strip plastic cards, you can peel off the sticker, scan your ID or someone else's, photoshop the dates or change the photo and name etc, print it out. Clean the mark off the back of the sticker. Use some contact glue to re-apply the information and sticker. If you have a magnetic strip programmer, you can even add your info so at bars that scan them it'll still say "21". If done well the bending technique won't mess up the corners. And with people from all over the country there are IDs from all over. There is no way to know little things to look for in fake IDs from each state. Basically, a simple fake ID should fool most people there. The idea of thinking that the system is not ridiculously easy to fool is as silly as thinking an arbitrary age is the way we should decide who can drink.

[makoona]

QUOTE:
"Side A of this - Seriously, how hard is it to ask for an ID? Try it in the privacy of your own home - look into a mirror, say "Can I see your ID?" Takes all of about 2 seconds. With the consequences involved it seems like a whole 2 seconds well spent If you're an adult and legal and mature enough to drink (OK, to drink in our Kantina, anyway) then what's the big deal? "



I'm just guessing here, but I don't think the problem is the 2 min (or 30 seconds) it takes to card, it's the fact that nobody has a card to card, and you won't get to serve your scrumptious libation to a dusty, dry mouthed and very appreciative BRC denizen.

[Finnegan]

Complaining about the negativity at Burning Man last year was better last year.

[Lord Of Ruin]

[quote="MikeVDS"]I think he means the age is arbitrary. Why 21? I've always hated laws that use age since it is arbitrary and very unreliable way of telling maturity, responsibility, and physical development. Unfortunately it's the best objective way we have of doing it currently, which is why I understand the laws.[/quote]

Well, I don't think it's as arbitrary as you might think. The drinking age used to be 18 throughout most of the U.S. Statistically speaking, they (whoever sponsored the law change) were able to show increased rates of auto accidents, deaths, etc from drinking between 18 and 21. Fed. Government withheld money from states to encourage them to change their policies. All states have done so.

Interestingly, military bases, even those within the US were among the last to change making them attractive watering holes for those under 21!

My point being is that it's not arbitrary and truth be told the rule sorta works. Are there some mature 18 year olds that can hold their liquor? Sure.

I guess it comes down to picking your battles. Is BM the place you're gonna make your stand about the evils of the 21 year drinking age?

LoR

[Finnegan]

Quoting myself, “I understand the argument and the legal ramifications. But there is clearly a line, and I would argue that it is arbitrary.

Is jay-walking a crime in nevada? What if they enforced that (or substitute any other inane law) at BM?“

And what I was trying to say in regards to artibrariness, is that there are plenty of laws that are broken out there every year, pretty much all the time. As an extreme example, consider public nudity. Is it possible to enforce that law at BM? I guess so. But why bother? So if it’s Lawn Order we’re after, why aren’t *all* the laws enforced? Arbitrarily cherry-picking this law and that law to enforce was my point. Sorry if I was unclear.

[MikeVDS]

Complaining about the negativity at Burning Man last year was better last year.

God dammit, I'm going to complain about the negativity of Burningman better this year than last. Fucking anal troglodytes!

[MikeVDS]

Statistically speaking, they (whoever sponsored the law change) were able to show increased rates of auto accidents, deaths, etc from drinking between 18 and 21. Fed.

Statistically speaking, they are able to show an increase of accidents, deaths, etc for people who drink over 21, so let's ban alcohol? You can show just about anything statistically, but assuming the studies were well done, there is going to be a curve where they still have to draw some arbitrary line. Were 21 years olds only causing half as many accidents as 20 years olds? Why should we let those 21 year olds cause drunken accidents? Isn't just one too many?

[gyre]

Interestingly, alcohol was made legal again because prohibition made access to alcohol for children too easy.
I wonder how much illegal drug use goes up for those under 21 when laws change.
I wonder what the long term social costs are for those few who can't handle drugs?
The actual justification for the change to 21 years old was to prevent 18 year olds in high school from giving alcohol to their friends.

Still, most of the friends I've lost to drugs, have been lost to alcohol.

[AntiM]

Back in the 70s, the drinking age in Utah was 21, up in Wyoming it was 18. Lost a lot of kids then, driving home drunk down the canyons.

[Finnegan]

I'm just being Mr. Curious here: How many people at BM carry ID, do you suppose? As a percentage. I know i never have, nor do i know anyone who has. And that is in six years. I have never even *seen* anyone ask for or show an ID there. I'm sure it happens, and i'm just blissfully unaware, but i wonder what the numbers are.

And, is there any way to research the number of people busted for underage drinking or for serving same out there? Would BMORG have stats like that?

[trilobyte]

All you really need to do is you yourself personally take responsibility for the well-being and health of any/all minors that may wind up being served at your bar, and then you step up financially to pay for fines and penalties that you or your campmates would incur if you wound up getting busted for serving a minor. Well, that and getting your other campmates who'd tend bar to sign off on having you shoulder that burden.

~Trilo~